Being the wiseguy that I am, I thought I'd let you all in on what I see when I open a thread to see a multi-paragraph post.
Blah blah blah, 3RR blah blah blah blah. Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah.
Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah: 1-blah, 2-blah, 3-blah. Blah blah blah 3RR, blah blah blah. 3 RR blah blah blah blah blah blah, blah blah blah blah blah blah blah.
Tony Clifton
3RR, Socialized Fantasy Medicine?
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Tony Clifton
- Posts: 51
- Joined: Thu Jul 06, 2006 6:00 pm
3RR, Socialized Fantasy Medicine?
Even a broken clock is right twice a day.
3RR, Socialized Fantasy Medicine?
usually when I see a post with the word blah typed 46x I see VALUE ADDED !!! :rolleyes:
Q
Q
3RR, Socialized Fantasy Medicine?
Originally posted by Quahogs:
usually when I see a post with the word blah typed 46x I see VALUE ADDED !!! :rolleyes:
Q fugheddaboudit !!!.......
usually when I see a post with the word blah typed 46x I see VALUE ADDED !!! :rolleyes:
Q fugheddaboudit !!!.......
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Leroy's Aces
- Posts: 198
- Joined: Thu Jul 13, 2006 6:00 pm
3RR, Socialized Fantasy Medicine?
The 3 RR format makes sense from a competitive perspective. I will consider it for my local league if other owners like it.
There is a negative to the 3RR format from a business perspective if it is used for the main event NFFC. It complicates your event. That will continue to limit the number of entrants attacted to this competition.
1. First of all, the NFFC has 14 team leagues. Most people play in 12 team leagues. That has always limited the number of interested players for the NFFC.
2. Your scoring system is a little unique, with 1/2 points for RB catches, and or whatever it is. Truly not a big deal, but casual players prefer a uniform scoring system.
3. KDS. A great rule, and it is easy, but it also is unique for many players and needs explanation. Also, different from home leagues.
4. Now, with a move to 3RR, it adds another quirky little thing to your event. It gets tough to attract casual players with rules that are unlike their home fantasy leagues.
In my opinion, many 1st year casual fantasy players with $1300-2000 to blow (the "dead money" people that so many players want to join) are frequently turned off by the many unique little quirky rules of the NFFC and the 14 team format.
Most of these rules are done to level the playing field. I do appreciate Greg that does this for the love and competition of the game, not just to grow the event. He seems great and I had lots of fun last year. The customer service is truly excellent here.
As WCOFF and NFFC evolve, the NFFC contest seems to try to appeal more to the hardcore fantasy player, and running a competitive contest is the main concern. That is great, although getting enough entrants each year has always seemed to be a little bit of a challenge.
WCOFF will continue to attract more casual players, more turnover, more dead money, and more overall participants, due to their standardized scoring and format, 12 team leagues and the huge Vegas draft experience. WCOFF may have average customer service, but they do offer some freebies and a great experience for many players.
Just another viewpoint on the idea.
Dave Gerczak
Leroy's Aces
Leroy is Beautiful NFFC 2006
[ February 14, 2007, 11:31 PM: Message edited by: Leroy's Aces ]
There is a negative to the 3RR format from a business perspective if it is used for the main event NFFC. It complicates your event. That will continue to limit the number of entrants attacted to this competition.
1. First of all, the NFFC has 14 team leagues. Most people play in 12 team leagues. That has always limited the number of interested players for the NFFC.
2. Your scoring system is a little unique, with 1/2 points for RB catches, and or whatever it is. Truly not a big deal, but casual players prefer a uniform scoring system.
3. KDS. A great rule, and it is easy, but it also is unique for many players and needs explanation. Also, different from home leagues.
4. Now, with a move to 3RR, it adds another quirky little thing to your event. It gets tough to attract casual players with rules that are unlike their home fantasy leagues.
In my opinion, many 1st year casual fantasy players with $1300-2000 to blow (the "dead money" people that so many players want to join) are frequently turned off by the many unique little quirky rules of the NFFC and the 14 team format.
Most of these rules are done to level the playing field. I do appreciate Greg that does this for the love and competition of the game, not just to grow the event. He seems great and I had lots of fun last year. The customer service is truly excellent here.
As WCOFF and NFFC evolve, the NFFC contest seems to try to appeal more to the hardcore fantasy player, and running a competitive contest is the main concern. That is great, although getting enough entrants each year has always seemed to be a little bit of a challenge.
WCOFF will continue to attract more casual players, more turnover, more dead money, and more overall participants, due to their standardized scoring and format, 12 team leagues and the huge Vegas draft experience. WCOFF may have average customer service, but they do offer some freebies and a great experience for many players.
Just another viewpoint on the idea.
Dave Gerczak
Leroy's Aces
Leroy is Beautiful NFFC 2006
[ February 14, 2007, 11:31 PM: Message edited by: Leroy's Aces ]
'08 NFFC Primetime Champ
3RR, Socialized Fantasy Medicine?
Originally posted by Team Legacy:
quote:Originally posted by Nag':
Data from hundreds or even thousands of leagues shows that top draft slots have been more successful than the lower ones. This is what I DON'T understand. If you actually believe what you're typing above, I can't see why you wouldn't accept the STRONG possibility that this proposal of 3RR will ASSUREDLY HELP (maybe not solve) but HELP lessen the advantage you speak of that the top picks have. [/QUOTE]I'll explain. It's quite simple actually. I can and absolutely do "accept the STRONG possibility that this proposal of 3RR will ASSUREDLY HELP" make the top draft slots weaker. Have you heard me say that it won't? Logic dictates that it should. What I don't know is to what level. If 3RR simply shifts the "advantage" to the lower picks from the higher ones, then you've accomplished nothing, if not made it even worse.
Could it lean the other way and more of the bottom teams win? I for one, certainly hope so.
Will 3RR perfect the issue so that evenly across the board every spot wins evenly? NO, I'm sure it won't, but let's just say if currently, the top 4 picks win 50% of the time compared to the 28.5% of the time the laws of averages state would be "even" (4 out of 14), we have a problem.
Let's say after 3-5 years pass(enough data), 50% of the teams from the bottom 4 spots win, then maybe 3RR should be 5RR. I think what all of us have experienced over the last 3-5 years is evidence something should be done about the advantage the top spots have had and enjoyed.So basically what you're saying is, you have no problem if 3RR doesn't acheive what it is suppose to 3-5 years from now because you'll simply apply the next Rule de Jour that might get the job done? if that's the case, then Lou is 100% correct. This IS fantasy socialism. Level the playing field by any means necessary: KDS, 3RR, BBDS, 5RR, etc. What if the desired effect STILL hasn't been acheived even then? And I don't think it will be, btw. There are simply way too many variables in a FF draft, year to year, draft to draft, and we will always be trailing behind them in this attempt to "level" the playing field.
quote:Originally posted by Nag':
Data from hundreds or even thousands of leagues shows that top draft slots have been more successful than the lower ones. This is what I DON'T understand. If you actually believe what you're typing above, I can't see why you wouldn't accept the STRONG possibility that this proposal of 3RR will ASSUREDLY HELP (maybe not solve) but HELP lessen the advantage you speak of that the top picks have. [/QUOTE]I'll explain. It's quite simple actually. I can and absolutely do "accept the STRONG possibility that this proposal of 3RR will ASSUREDLY HELP" make the top draft slots weaker. Have you heard me say that it won't? Logic dictates that it should. What I don't know is to what level. If 3RR simply shifts the "advantage" to the lower picks from the higher ones, then you've accomplished nothing, if not made it even worse.
Could it lean the other way and more of the bottom teams win? I for one, certainly hope so.
Will 3RR perfect the issue so that evenly across the board every spot wins evenly? NO, I'm sure it won't, but let's just say if currently, the top 4 picks win 50% of the time compared to the 28.5% of the time the laws of averages state would be "even" (4 out of 14), we have a problem.
Let's say after 3-5 years pass(enough data), 50% of the teams from the bottom 4 spots win, then maybe 3RR should be 5RR. I think what all of us have experienced over the last 3-5 years is evidence something should be done about the advantage the top spots have had and enjoyed.So basically what you're saying is, you have no problem if 3RR doesn't acheive what it is suppose to 3-5 years from now because you'll simply apply the next Rule de Jour that might get the job done? if that's the case, then Lou is 100% correct. This IS fantasy socialism. Level the playing field by any means necessary: KDS, 3RR, BBDS, 5RR, etc. What if the desired effect STILL hasn't been acheived even then? And I don't think it will be, btw. There are simply way too many variables in a FF draft, year to year, draft to draft, and we will always be trailing behind them in this attempt to "level" the playing field.
For Players. By Players.
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RI WORKHORSE
- Posts: 1567
- Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2005 6:00 pm
3RR, Socialized Fantasy Medicine?
Aces,
I hear WCOFF charge's for the air you breathe on draft day.
Johnny
I hear WCOFF charge's for the air you breathe on draft day.
Johnny
I.W
Johnny Frisella
Johnny Frisella
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Team Legacy
- Posts: 729
- Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 6:00 pm
- Location: Indianapolis
- Contact:
3RR, Socialized Fantasy Medicine?
Originally posted by Nag':
quote:Originally posted by Team Legacy:
quote:Originally posted by Nag':
Data from hundreds or even thousands of leagues shows that top draft slots have been more successful than the lower ones. This is what I DON'T understand. If you actually believe what you're typing above, I can't see why you wouldn't accept the STRONG possibility that this proposal of 3RR will ASSUREDLY HELP (maybe not solve) but HELP lessen the advantage you speak of that the top picks have. [/QUOTE]I'll explain. It's quite simple actually. I can and absolutely do "accept the STRONG possibility that this proposal of 3RR will ASSUREDLY HELP" make the top draft slots weaker. Have you heard me say that it won't? Logic dictates that it should. What I don't know is to what level. If 3RR simply shifts the "advantage" to the lower picks from the higher ones, then you've accomplished nothing, if not made it even worse.[/QUOTE]
Gotcha. I understand your argument, but I would side with what others have suggested, and that's to say that IF anything, it will help LESSEN the advantage rather than to give an outright advantage to the later picks. I mean, one would guess that there will be a few teams that NAIL a TOP talent from the 12-14 spot and again another couple studs, ala LJ 2005, however statistically, over the large mass of data, I would think that adding the 29th player instead of the 42nd, will narrow the gap, not give an edge to the later picks. It still comes down to nailing picks, but at least after the first couple rounds of drafting, the teams won't be as lopsided as they have been statistically the past few years.
Originally posted by Team Legacy:
Could it lean the other way and more of the bottom teams win? I for one, certainly hope so.
Will 3RR perfect the issue so that evenly across the board every spot wins evenly? NO, I'm sure it won't, but let's just say if currently, the top 4 picks win 50% of the time compared to the 28.5% of the time the laws of averages state would be "even" (4 out of 14), we have a problem.
Let's say after 3-5 years pass(enough data), 50% of the teams from the bottom 4 spots win, then maybe 3RR should be 5RR. I think what all of us have experienced over the last 3-5 years is evidence something should be done about the advantage the top spots have had and enjoyed. Originally posted by Nag'
So basically what you're saying is, you have no problem if 3RR doesn't acheive what it is suppose to 3-5 years from now because you'll simply apply the next Rule de Jour that might get the job done? if that's the case, then Lou is 100% correct. This IS fantasy socialism. Level the playing field by any means necessary: KDS, 3RR, BBDS, 5RR, etc. What if the desired effect STILL hasn't been acheived even then? And I don't think it will be, btw. There are simply way too many variables in a FF draft, year to year, draft to draft, and we will always be trailing behind them in this attempt to "level" the playing field. Nothing wrong with striving to give everyone more equal opportunity. What someone DOES with that opportunity is up to them. That's the American dream. Now, if you were to suggest that after someone makes a bad draft pick, that they get a "redo" in week 2, THAT would be socialism, not this.
[ February 15, 2007, 12:17 AM: Message edited by: Team Legacy ]
quote:Originally posted by Team Legacy:
quote:Originally posted by Nag':
Data from hundreds or even thousands of leagues shows that top draft slots have been more successful than the lower ones. This is what I DON'T understand. If you actually believe what you're typing above, I can't see why you wouldn't accept the STRONG possibility that this proposal of 3RR will ASSUREDLY HELP (maybe not solve) but HELP lessen the advantage you speak of that the top picks have. [/QUOTE]I'll explain. It's quite simple actually. I can and absolutely do "accept the STRONG possibility that this proposal of 3RR will ASSUREDLY HELP" make the top draft slots weaker. Have you heard me say that it won't? Logic dictates that it should. What I don't know is to what level. If 3RR simply shifts the "advantage" to the lower picks from the higher ones, then you've accomplished nothing, if not made it even worse.[/QUOTE]
Gotcha. I understand your argument, but I would side with what others have suggested, and that's to say that IF anything, it will help LESSEN the advantage rather than to give an outright advantage to the later picks. I mean, one would guess that there will be a few teams that NAIL a TOP talent from the 12-14 spot and again another couple studs, ala LJ 2005, however statistically, over the large mass of data, I would think that adding the 29th player instead of the 42nd, will narrow the gap, not give an edge to the later picks. It still comes down to nailing picks, but at least after the first couple rounds of drafting, the teams won't be as lopsided as they have been statistically the past few years.
Originally posted by Team Legacy:
Could it lean the other way and more of the bottom teams win? I for one, certainly hope so.
Will 3RR perfect the issue so that evenly across the board every spot wins evenly? NO, I'm sure it won't, but let's just say if currently, the top 4 picks win 50% of the time compared to the 28.5% of the time the laws of averages state would be "even" (4 out of 14), we have a problem.
Let's say after 3-5 years pass(enough data), 50% of the teams from the bottom 4 spots win, then maybe 3RR should be 5RR. I think what all of us have experienced over the last 3-5 years is evidence something should be done about the advantage the top spots have had and enjoyed. Originally posted by Nag'
So basically what you're saying is, you have no problem if 3RR doesn't acheive what it is suppose to 3-5 years from now because you'll simply apply the next Rule de Jour that might get the job done? if that's the case, then Lou is 100% correct. This IS fantasy socialism. Level the playing field by any means necessary: KDS, 3RR, BBDS, 5RR, etc. What if the desired effect STILL hasn't been acheived even then? And I don't think it will be, btw. There are simply way too many variables in a FF draft, year to year, draft to draft, and we will always be trailing behind them in this attempt to "level" the playing field. Nothing wrong with striving to give everyone more equal opportunity. What someone DOES with that opportunity is up to them. That's the American dream. Now, if you were to suggest that after someone makes a bad draft pick, that they get a "redo" in week 2, THAT would be socialism, not this.
[ February 15, 2007, 12:17 AM: Message edited by: Team Legacy ]
Twitter: @ScottFantasy
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Gordon Gekko
- Posts: 7222
- Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2004 6:00 pm
3RR, Socialized Fantasy Medicine?
Originally posted by Leroy's Aces:
There is a negative to the 3RR format from a business perspective if it is used for the main event NFFC. It complicates your event. That will continue to limit the number of entrants attacted to this competition.
Dave Gerczak
Leroy's Aces
Leroy is Beautiful NFFC 2006 Dave - I got to disagree with you here. If 3RR helps create a more normal distribution of successful draft slots, then it would be embraced by the fantasy world. Don't try to speak for the dummied-down 'casual' owners you talked about before. SPEAK IN TERMS OF YOURSELF.
If 3RR helps create a more normal distribution of successful draft slots, would YOU rather play in an event like this, or in an event that is rigged (regular serpentine) before the draft event takes place? thanks in advance.
There is a negative to the 3RR format from a business perspective if it is used for the main event NFFC. It complicates your event. That will continue to limit the number of entrants attacted to this competition.
Dave Gerczak
Leroy's Aces
Leroy is Beautiful NFFC 2006 Dave - I got to disagree with you here. If 3RR helps create a more normal distribution of successful draft slots, then it would be embraced by the fantasy world. Don't try to speak for the dummied-down 'casual' owners you talked about before. SPEAK IN TERMS OF YOURSELF.
If 3RR helps create a more normal distribution of successful draft slots, would YOU rather play in an event like this, or in an event that is rigged (regular serpentine) before the draft event takes place? thanks in advance.
Is my "weekend warrior" prep better than your prep?
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Leroy's Aces
- Posts: 198
- Joined: Thu Jul 13, 2006 6:00 pm
3RR, Socialized Fantasy Medicine?
GG,
I am speaking in terms of having the NFFC attract more competitors and be more successful, which strengthens the event long-term. I do not think that adding more rules like this does that that. The reasons I stated are why this event is never sold out and has problems attracting competitors. It makes the event more of a unique, specialty event, which is actually great for players like me and you, but casual entrants get scared off from it. If that is fine with Greg, that is fine with me, but it limits the event.
I did state that personally I like the idea, and I would be more likely to join had I not played in it before. But I am not the type of fantasy player this event needs to attract. You need the people that have not played in an event like this before.
I am speaking in terms of having the NFFC attract more competitors and be more successful, which strengthens the event long-term. I do not think that adding more rules like this does that that. The reasons I stated are why this event is never sold out and has problems attracting competitors. It makes the event more of a unique, specialty event, which is actually great for players like me and you, but casual entrants get scared off from it. If that is fine with Greg, that is fine with me, but it limits the event.
I did state that personally I like the idea, and I would be more likely to join had I not played in it before. But I am not the type of fantasy player this event needs to attract. You need the people that have not played in an event like this before.
'08 NFFC Primetime Champ
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Gordon Gekko
- Posts: 7222
- Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2004 6:00 pm
3RR, Socialized Fantasy Medicine?
Originally posted by Leroy's Aces:
The reasons I stated are why this event is never sold out and has problems attracting competitors. Dave - the NFFC hasn't sold out because of one thing and one thing only...WCOFF.
if the NFFC had been first on the scene. it would be the first 1000 owner event.
[ February 15, 2007, 08:24 AM: Message edited by: Gordon Gekko ]
The reasons I stated are why this event is never sold out and has problems attracting competitors. Dave - the NFFC hasn't sold out because of one thing and one thing only...WCOFF.
if the NFFC had been first on the scene. it would be the first 1000 owner event.
[ February 15, 2007, 08:24 AM: Message edited by: Gordon Gekko ]
Is my "weekend warrior" prep better than your prep?