This game could set football back 60 years!!!

Tom Kessenich · Post by **Tom Kessenich** » Sat Nov 19, 2011 12:39 pm

Mike, my point is he's been a QB1 as a starter both this season and last. He's also been extremely reliable, moreso than nearly all of the QBs ranked ahead of him in NFFC scoring. These are not opinions. They are facts. Will it continue? Who knows? Other than a handful of QBs this season, you can make the exact same argument about every QB in the league - especially this season when so little seems to make sense on a weekly basis.

All I'm saying is that based on what Tebow has done in terms of fantasy production and considering how reliable he's been and how his floor has proven thus far to be higher than nearly every QB ranked ahead of him, there's plenty of reason to believe it will continue. At this point, I think we need to end our debate. You've admitted you won't give Tebow any credit for what he's done and as long as you continue to change the bar by which you believe he should be judged then there's nothing more I can add that I haven't said already.

But you're correct, it's highly unlikely the Tebow discussion will end anytime soon. I'll enjoy his QB1 production and you can go on pretending as if he hasn't been one of fantasy's most reliable and productive QBs whenever he's been a starter. Sound good?

Good luck tomorrow.

Shrink Attack · Post by **Shrink Attack** » Sat Nov 19, 2011 3:16 pm

Originally posted by Tom Kessenich:
quote:Originally posted by Al R G:
And his fantasy production is middle of the pack as a QB.He's actually QB11 in average points per game in NFFC scoring going into tomorrow's games. He's been a QB1 since becoming the starter and he was a QB1 as a starter last season too. And as I pointed out, all but two of the QBs currently ranked ahead of Tebow have had worse games than he's produced at his worst. So not only is he a QB1 but he's proven to be extremely reliable. From a fantasy standpoint, there's not much negative you can say about him at this point in terms of production. [/QUOTE]Being QB11 is middle of the pack, Tom. Maybe worse.

We're talking Fantasy here, aren't we? Let's please try to stick to that. Yes, being QB11 makes him a low end starter in the NFFC, but since we can each only start one QB in our lineups, by definition illustrious names like Dalton and Sanchez are also low end QB starters. If Tebow is 11th out of 14, that puts him practically in the bottom 20% of starters, doesn't it? An argument could be made that he's worse than middle of the pack when considering who to start at QB in the NFFC.

I don't understand why you seem so impressed with him in terms of Fantasy. He's a great story and a unique individual and he wins games and he's a great role model and we can't help but cheer for him. It's great to print out his name followed by 20 exclamation points and all that great stuff, but c'mon. He's averaging 22.9 points a game. Those are serviceable numbers but it's not leading anybody to a Fantasy Championship.

Cam Newton is QB3 over this same time period averaging 26.4 points per game, including 30+ points in 3 out of his last 5 games. Tebow has been under 20 points in 3 of his last 5 games. Newton is a true Rookie who is clearly outperforming Tebow. Why aren't you talking him up? You keep repeating that what Tebow is doing is so remarkable, but Newton has been much better in terms of Fantasy.

It's all because Tebow is a great story. Everyone should give him credit for winning games and being a great individual, but in terms of Fantasy his achievements are being overblown.

Ry's Guys · Post by **Ry's Guys** » Sat Nov 19, 2011 5:02 pm

I have to agree with Shrink. With this logic if he were a WR he'd be about the 33rd ranked WR. It is amazing that everyone is so head over heels in love with an 11th ranked QB.
Everyone has different strategies and maybe because I prefer to take a QB early I don't envy a guy getting 23 points out of his QB spot. This is the highest scoring position in our game. If you only get the 11th highest scorer this puts you at a disadvantage.

Tom, I find it strange that you are using consistency as such a big selling point on "Tebow!!!!!!!!!!" The kid has played five full games this year and I think three last year. I would call this a very small sample size. I'm also not so enamored with his so called consistency. As Sandman has pointed out his "consistency" is that in his five full games this year he has gone under 20 points 60% of the time.

Completion percentage is pretty important to the success of the quarterback in my opinion. That percentage has gone up steadily in the last 10 years on average. The amount of screens and WR screens has gone up in the last few years. On that note, I think anyone that has watched football for the last 20 years can agree that Ryan Leaf and JaMarcus Russell are two of the worst quarterbacks in the history of the NFL.
Russell had a career completion pct. of 52.4 Leaf 48.4. YUCK!
Tebow's completion pct.? 46.4

Maybe I'm messing with numbers? Well judge for yourself.
In 10 career games that he has attempted a pass he has had 2 games in which he completed more than 50% of his passes. One of those games he was 16-29 the other he was 1-1.
This year in six games he has completed 44.6% of his passes and not once has he even completed 50% of his passes!

Say what you want Tebow lovers. But all I can say is enjoy the kid while you can because he is NOT an NFL quarterback!

[ November 19, 2011, 11:05 PM: Message edited by: Bullgod ]

Cocktails and Dreams · Post by **Cocktails and Dreams** » Sat Nov 19, 2011 5:21 pm

Originally posted by Old School:
quote:Originally posted by Cocktails and Dreams:
Read option has ran its course. If you go with Tebow you have to use him as the tailback like last night with the defense spread out. Uptempo with that style is very effective. Tired linemen and linebackers will struggle to handle him if he can just complete some here or there tou keep the extra safety out of the box. Sprinkle in a little read option but not make it the base. then how do u explain him throwing for over 300 yards as a ROOKIE last year with a decent offensive coach? [/QUOTE]Not seeing in any way shape or form what my post has to do with him throwing for 300 yards in some random game last year with same offensive coordinator he has now? Please enlighten me.

Tom Kessenich · Post by **Tom Kessenich** » Sun Nov 20, 2011 2:32 am

Originally posted by Shrink Attack:
Being QB11 is middle of the pack, Tom. Maybe worse. I disagree, Paul. I think if you have a Top 12 QB (Primetime) or Top 14 QB (Classic) that typically means you have someone you can plug into your lineup every week and know they're going to give you reliable production. That's certainly been the case with Tebow.

Are you getting Aaron Rodgers-type production? Obviously not. But there's only going to be one team in your league that has him. Same with Brady, Brees etc. So if I can't get an elite QB I'll take someone who ranks near the Top 10 and is someone I can start knowing that barring something unforeseen (like an injury or in Tebow's case being benched) he's going to deliver for me. Tebow absolutely qualifies on that count thus far which is why I do not regard him as a middle-of-the pack option or worse.

My approach is pretty simple - the fewer lineup decisions I have to make each week, the happier I am. Tebow has been a QB1 both this season and last as a starter so as long as there's no threat of him being benched (and I think we can safely remove that for now) then I know he's going to produce for me.

The only question then is whether I have another QB on my roster with more upside. In one of the leagues I have Tebow, for example, I also have Palmer. I started Palmer this week because I liked his potential more. But next week I'll probably go back to Tebow because I like his matchup (vs. San Diego) a lot more than I like Palmer's (vs. Chicago).