5K Ultimate League

[Gordon Gekko]

Greg - Can you post the rules (if any are different from the main event), along with the prize schedule for the 5K Ultimate League? Is the prize schedule finalized? I may be looking to get out of your DC league and into the 5K league (most likely with a partner) or even taking a stab at your competitors league. I need to ramp up my fantasy football earnings.

I'm also curious as to the payout %. I think I remember something about 83%. In other words ~17% (over $11,500) goes to KP. To me (someone who doesn't run an event) that seems like a lot of money, not so much in a % sense, but in an overall sense. Is there anything the 5K participants can do to increase the % payout?

Thanks.

[Greg Ambrosius]

Originally posted by Gordon Gekko:
Greg - Can you post the rules (if any are different from the main event), along with the prize schedule for the 5K Ultimate League? Is the prize schedule finalized? I may be looking to get out of your DC league and into the 5K league (most likely with a partner) or even taking a stab at your competitors league. I need to ramp up my fantasy football earnings.

I'm also curious as to the payout %. I think I remember something about 83%. In other words ~17% (over $11,500) goes to KP. To me (someone who doesn't run an event) that seems like a lot of money, not so much in a % sense, but in an overall sense. Is there anything the 5K participants can do to increase the % payout?

Thanks. Gordon, I have forwarded the Word document with the rules to STATS and that will show up as a separate link on the home page under the Draft Champions link soon. I apologize for not having that posted sooner because obviously the playoff structure is different for this, although the rules are the same. And yes, the prize structure is finalized.

You are correct, we are paying out over 82 percent in this league, but the quick math on the profit isn't as simple as you have here. You must realize that we are planning for Ultimate League participants in each city since we can easily do a teleconference hookup for a straight draft. I believe we'll fill two Ultimate Leagues since we had 30 Ultimate League participants in baseball. If we just fill one league, that's fine, but I believe we have a shot for two full leagues.

With that in mind, I've reserved and will pay for meeting room space at the Excalibur in Las Vegas, the New York Hilton and the Chicago Oakbrook Marriott. None of that comes free. We also are keeping two or more KP workers in each city until Monday to handle all of the drafts. Then we're also paying a percentage of revenue to the NFLPA for licensing, the draft boards and facilitators in each city. I'm not outlining all of this so people can feel sorry for us because we will make money on this league, but doing one or two of these leagues with participants potentially in all three cities does have its fair share of expenses.

Maybe a TV network will want a piece of this Ultimate League one day and they can add to the prize pool and turn you into the fantasy sports industry's Chris Moneymaker. I'll keep working on that one.

I hope this explanation helps.

[King of Queens]

Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:
With that in mind, I've reserved and will pay for meeting room space at the Excalibur in Las Vegas, the New York Hilton and the Chicago Oakbrook Marriott. None of that comes free. We also are keeping two or more KP workers in each city until Monday to handle all of the drafts. Then we're also paying a percentage of revenue to the NFLPA for licensing, the draft boards and facilitators in each city. I see you've changed your tune on multi-city teleconferences, Greg. Or is that just for multi-city AUCTION teleconferences?

All of these expenses you mentioned, with the exception of the NFLPA licensing costs, could be eliminated by doing the event via remote teleconferencing (no meeting space required). If all of the participants were willing to forego the draft board and in-house facilitators, would that enable KP to increase the payout percentage to something in the 90%-95% range?

[ July 08, 2005, 12:34 PM: Message edited by: King of Queens ]

[Tom Kessenich]

At this point we have no plans to do a multi-city teleconference auction. However, we will continue to do them for baseball and football when warranted. They are much easier to manage and go off without a hitch so that will remain an option.

Of course the top option is to have every league filled up in each city so if people haven't signed up already jump on it the water isn't cold.

[Greg Ambrosius]

Originally posted by King of Queens:
quote:Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:
With that in mind, I've reserved and will pay for meeting room space at the Excalibur in Las Vegas, the New York Hilton and the Chicago Oakbrook Marriott. None of that comes free. We also are keeping two or more KP workers in each city until Monday to handle all of the drafts. Then we're also paying a percentage of revenue to the NFLPA for licensing, the draft boards and facilitators in each city. I see you've changed your tune on multi-city teleconferences, Greg. Or is that just for multi-city AUCTION teleconferences?

All of these expenses you mentioned, with the exception of the NFLPA licensing costs, could be eliminated by doing the event via remote teleconferencing (no meeting space required). If all of the participants were willing to forego the draft board and in-house facilitators, would that enable KP to increase the payout percentage to something in the 90%-95% range? [/QUOTE]We have no problem with the drafts being in multi-cities at once. As you know, the auction is a little tougher to do, but we prevailed in baseball. It's our preference with auctions, however, to host them in one city if possible. Drafts, no problem.

If we could find a way to pay back 100% that would be even better.

[King of Queens]

Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:
If we could find a way to pay back 100% that would be even better. In the spirit of Spinal Tap ("this one goes to eleven"), can we shoot for 110%?

[King of Queens]

Truth be told, I threw the teleconference idea out there because I won't be available on Friday or Sunday that weekend. A dial-up conference call would be the only way I could make any events other than the main draft on Saturday.

Is there any hope for this, Greg? Am I S.O.L. until 2006?

[Gordon Gekko]

greg - I talked over the prize schedule with my potential partner (Dave Cushard). We are both concerned there is not enough $ apportioned to reward the best teams through the regular season (first 13 weeks). The current schedule is:

First Place: $27,500
Second Place: $12,500
Third Place: $7,500
Head-2-Head Regular season champion: $5,000
Regular Season Points champion: $5,000

Only $10,000 is paid out pre-playoffs...which is around 17%. I believe in the NFFC $1,250 main event, around 60% goes toward rewarding the best teams in each league ($5,000 1st; $2,500 2nd; $500 3rd), and around 40% goes into the overall playoffs pool.

We both think it's far more equitable to reward the best teams after 13 weeks (H2H leader and most pts) with more $. Would you consider something like:

First Place: $22,500
Second Place: $10,000
Third Place: $5,000
Head-2-Head Regular season champion: $10,000
Regular Season Points champion: $10,000

[Greg Ambrosius]

Originally posted by King of Queens:
Truth be told, I threw the teleconference idea out there because I won't be available on Friday or Sunday that weekend. A dial-up conference call would be the only way I could make any events other than the main draft on Saturday.

Is there any hope for this, Greg? Am I S.O.L. until 2006? Our goal has always been to focus on the live draft as it's easy to run online leagues. Some online leagues pay back 90 percent of the signup fees in prizes and still do well as there are fewer expenses involved. Our expenses are greater than people imagine, but that's fine. It's our business plan and in the future I believe that sponsorship revenue will cover all of that as we continue to grow in size and prominence.

A telephone hookup for an owner in the auction league is obviously impossible. It is doable for a Draft Champions spot or even the NFFC Ultimate League. I would work with someone as dedicated as you on this if your schedule just absolutely won't let you join us in person on either of those days as I know you'll be there on Saturday. I'd work with you on this.

[Greg Ambrosius]

Originally posted by Gordon Gekko:
greg - I talked over the prize schedule with my potential partner (Dave Cushard). We are both concerned there is not enough $ apportioned to reward the best teams through the regular season (first 13 weeks). The current schedule is:

First Place: $27,500
Second Place: $12,500
Third Place: $7,500
Head-2-Head Regular season champion: $5,000
Regular Season Points champion: $5,000

Only $10,000 is paid out pre-playoffs...which is around 17%. I believe in the NFFC $1,250 main event, around 60% goes toward rewarding the best teams in each league ($5,000 1st; $2,500 2nd; $500 3rd), and around 40% goes into the overall playoffs pool.

We both think it's far more equitable to reward the best teams after 13 weeks (H2H leader and most pts) with more $. Would you consider something like:

First Place: $22,500
Second Place: $10,000
Third Place: $5,000
Head-2-Head Regular season champion: $10,000
Regular Season Points champion: $10,000 Obviously, the percentage of payout in the NFFC's main event is higher for playoff teams because we are awarding the $100,000 grand prize to the eventual champion. Honestly, my fear of my current payout proposal in the NFFC Ultimate was that we weren't paying enough to the grand champion the way we have it. I wasn't sure $27,500 was enough if you take out the $10,000 for the regular season payouts.

I don't have any problem with your proposal, but I've already advertised this payout and have taken signups with this payout in mind, so I'll have to stick with this. If enough people express an interest in paying more to the regular season champions in 2006, we'll definitely do it. In my setup now, a perfect season would result in $37,500 and in your proposal a perfect season would result in $42,500. I'm guaranteeing that three of 14 owners make money and your scenario has two of 14 making money and one breaking even. I don't disagree with either setup.

Thanks for the thoughts. You and Dyv, huh? Interesting.