Originally posted by felixflamingo:
quote:Originally posted by Cocktails and Dreams:
quote:Originally posted by felixflamingo:
quote:Originally posted by Cocktails and Dreams:
quote:Originally posted by felixflamingo:
Nicks came down with the ball and two feet inbounds for 23 yards, the penalty was for def pass interference...the judges moved the ball to the spot saying they accepted the penalty. But the Giants never accepted it, the judges just said they did and moved the ball. Plus it didn't matter whether they accepted it or not, it was first down at the same spot either way. So at the time and in the real game it didn't matter one bit...
They corrected it later. Nicks made the catch and they gave him the yards. I can't believe the confusion here. Not even close to correct. Nicks gained two more yards had they called it a catch on the field. [/QUOTE]23 yards isn't even close to correct? Must be somewhat close since that's what they credited him for. Maybe a little close? [/QUOTE]Nope, not close. Over two yards off. The point of why it should not be changed has sailed over your head. Horrible precedent set by NFL/Elias here. Now making changes that have nothing to do with scoring is very bad. [/QUOTE]Can see I'm not winning this one apparently. Somehow you "know" it should be 25 yards not 23 but the refs called pass interference and gave them 23...and 23 is not close to 25. Good stuff...message board legend.
The Giants never accepted the penalty, the refs moved the ball to the spot of the foul and never asked if they accepted...that's why it got changed later.
Go Elias! awesome precedent. Get it correct. [/QUOTE]Wow, you still don't understand my point. Not all that complicated. And yes I do somehow "know." I watched the play. Again not all that complicated. Interference was ruled at the 9. Nicks caught the ball and stepped out at the 7. Was not challenged by NY for the extra yardage since it was ruled incomplete. Therefore the pass interference stands. Nothing to change. They changed it to give Nicks the yards to the nine. Idiotic. He got to the 7. Horrible precedent by the NFL. Incredible that some, like yourself, think this is a good precedent that they changed in changing calls that were not reviewed. I cannot find one even remotely small piece of logic as to how your point of view makes any sense.
ELIAS Stats Revisions?
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Cocktails and Dreams
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Cocktails and Dreams
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Originally posted by felixflamingo:
They didn't "create" 23 yards out of thin air, or give a TD when it didn't happen. The NFL has never given credit for a play that never happened or was called back. There is no precedent.
If Hixon and Micks came down with it at the same time and later they watched the tape and decided that Nicks actually got it then nobody would complain.
It's the same thing, except they changed it from penalty yards into yards gained... No it was not the same thing. PI occurred at the nine, Nicks got to the 7.
They didn't "create" 23 yards out of thin air, or give a TD when it didn't happen. The NFL has never given credit for a play that never happened or was called back. There is no precedent.
If Hixon and Micks came down with it at the same time and later they watched the tape and decided that Nicks actually got it then nobody would complain.
It's the same thing, except they changed it from penalty yards into yards gained... No it was not the same thing. PI occurred at the nine, Nicks got to the 7.
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Cocktails and Dreams
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Originally posted by felixflamingo:
quote:Originally posted by mattjb:
can't believe people are trying to justify this. there was no pass completion to Nicks as it was ruled out of bounds. the completion never existed. it doesn't matter that it should have counted - there are probably half a dozen plays every week that should count that don't. It wasn't ruled out of bounds. If it was out of bounds it wouldn't have been pass interference. [/QUOTE]Quit while you are behind. Ofcourse it was not ruled a catch because he was deemed to be out of bounds.
quote:Originally posted by mattjb:
can't believe people are trying to justify this. there was no pass completion to Nicks as it was ruled out of bounds. the completion never existed. it doesn't matter that it should have counted - there are probably half a dozen plays every week that should count that don't. It wasn't ruled out of bounds. If it was out of bounds it wouldn't have been pass interference. [/QUOTE]Quit while you are behind. Ofcourse it was not ruled a catch because he was deemed to be out of bounds.
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Glenneration X
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Originally posted by Tom Kessenich:
quote:Originally posted by Hells Satans:
My guess is that Nicks and/or the Giants requested the scoring change, much like how baseball teams sometimes request changes on errors/hits. The difference I see, though, is the play itself never existed as Matt said. This wasn't ruled an incomplete pass on the field. It was ruled a PI. Therefore, no attempt or completion occurred. The league office essentially created a play to occur in order to allow these new stats to exist. That's rather unbelievable in my opinion.
Stat changes occur all the time but they do so for plays that have occurred. This play officially did not occur. Again, it's like my analogy for baseball. This is akin to a player hitting a foul ball only to have the official scorer decide it should've been a home run and subsequently awarding him a home run. That would never happen in baseball and it's easy to understand why. [/QUOTE]I think a more apt example would be to question what would have happened if this play had occurred in the end zone. If Nicks had caught the ball for a TD but was ruled out of bounds, but was awarded pass interference yardage to the one. Do they now award he and Manning TD's because that's what should have been called on the field?
The whole change is rather remarkable to me and makes little sense. Even worse, now that a precedent has been set, what are the parameters going to be, how far can you take this?
quote:Originally posted by Hells Satans:
My guess is that Nicks and/or the Giants requested the scoring change, much like how baseball teams sometimes request changes on errors/hits. The difference I see, though, is the play itself never existed as Matt said. This wasn't ruled an incomplete pass on the field. It was ruled a PI. Therefore, no attempt or completion occurred. The league office essentially created a play to occur in order to allow these new stats to exist. That's rather unbelievable in my opinion.
Stat changes occur all the time but they do so for plays that have occurred. This play officially did not occur. Again, it's like my analogy for baseball. This is akin to a player hitting a foul ball only to have the official scorer decide it should've been a home run and subsequently awarding him a home run. That would never happen in baseball and it's easy to understand why. [/QUOTE]I think a more apt example would be to question what would have happened if this play had occurred in the end zone. If Nicks had caught the ball for a TD but was ruled out of bounds, but was awarded pass interference yardage to the one. Do they now award he and Manning TD's because that's what should have been called on the field?
The whole change is rather remarkable to me and makes little sense. Even worse, now that a precedent has been set, what are the parameters going to be, how far can you take this?
ELIAS Stats Revisions?
I just saw the replay, Nicks wasn't even in on the play, he was eating popcorn and came down from the stands. So he def was out of bounds.
[ September 22, 2011, 11:47 AM: Message edited by: felixflamingo ]
[ September 22, 2011, 11:47 AM: Message edited by: felixflamingo ]
ELIAS Stats Revisions?
Annoying the only version i can find on youtube...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7b4San-2s3Q
watch after less than 1 second. you can see the official rule the pass incomplete. you can also see Nicks go out of bounds just short of the 6 yard line.
As you can see at the very end of the video the next play is snapped at the 9 yard line where the pass interference took place,
(the video also shows what a poor call it was by the official to rule him out of bounds but that is not the point)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7b4San-2s3Q
watch after less than 1 second. you can see the official rule the pass incomplete. you can also see Nicks go out of bounds just short of the 6 yard line.
As you can see at the very end of the video the next play is snapped at the 9 yard line where the pass interference took place,
(the video also shows what a poor call it was by the official to rule him out of bounds but that is not the point)
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I can't justify the way the ruling on the field has been changed.
BUT . .. Nicks did make the catch AND was in bounds with both feet in, so justice was served.
However, I don't like the way it was done because its bad precedent. The zebra's terrible ruling on this play rendered the play mute.
BUT . .. Nicks did make the catch AND was in bounds with both feet in, so justice was served.
However, I don't like the way it was done because its bad precedent. The zebra's terrible ruling on this play rendered the play mute.
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Tom Kessenich
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Originally posted by Glenneration X:
I think a more apt example would be to question what would have happened if this play had occurred in the end zone. If Nicks had caught the ball for a TD but was ruled out of bounds, but was awarded pass interference yardage to the one. Do they now award he and Manning TD's because that's what should have been called on the field? I was going to type that but got caught up with something else and never got back to it. I agree, that's a very good example of where this could be headed.
I think a more apt example would be to question what would have happened if this play had occurred in the end zone. If Nicks had caught the ball for a TD but was ruled out of bounds, but was awarded pass interference yardage to the one. Do they now award he and Manning TD's because that's what should have been called on the field? I was going to type that but got caught up with something else and never got back to it. I agree, that's a very good example of where this could be headed.
Tom Kessenich
Manager of High Stakes Fantasy Games, SportsHub Technologies
Twitter - @TomKessenich
Manager of High Stakes Fantasy Games, SportsHub Technologies
Twitter - @TomKessenich
ELIAS Stats Revisions?
Originally posted by Tom Kessenich:
quote:Originally posted by Glenneration X:
I think a more apt example would be to question what would have happened if this play had occurred in the end zone. If Nicks had caught the ball for a TD but was ruled out of bounds, but was awarded pass interference yardage to the one. Do they now award he and Manning TD's because that's what should have been called on the field? I was going to type that but got caught up with something else and never got back to it. I agree, that's a very good example of where this could be headed. [/QUOTE]I think the whole Replay of Scoring plays needs to be looked at. It SHOULD also include plays that COULD be a TD even if they were not ruled so on the field.
AND, not allowing coaches to challenge any scoring play is ridiculous.
There are so many other scenarios that could render a called TD not a TD.
For example, Let say a punt returner breaks a bunch of tackles in his redzone and runs it all the way down the field for a diving pylon moving TD.
The replay judges may review only the dive at the end and not that his knee was down back at his own 20 yard line.
A coach has no way of knowing what is being reviewed and how thorough these reviews are.
He SHOULD be able to challenge, even a replay officials call.
quote:Originally posted by Glenneration X:
I think a more apt example would be to question what would have happened if this play had occurred in the end zone. If Nicks had caught the ball for a TD but was ruled out of bounds, but was awarded pass interference yardage to the one. Do they now award he and Manning TD's because that's what should have been called on the field? I was going to type that but got caught up with something else and never got back to it. I agree, that's a very good example of where this could be headed. [/QUOTE]I think the whole Replay of Scoring plays needs to be looked at. It SHOULD also include plays that COULD be a TD even if they were not ruled so on the field.
AND, not allowing coaches to challenge any scoring play is ridiculous.
There are so many other scenarios that could render a called TD not a TD.
For example, Let say a punt returner breaks a bunch of tackles in his redzone and runs it all the way down the field for a diving pylon moving TD.
The replay judges may review only the dive at the end and not that his knee was down back at his own 20 yard line.
A coach has no way of knowing what is being reviewed and how thorough these reviews are.
He SHOULD be able to challenge, even a replay officials call.
ELIAS Stats Revisions?
I'm chiming in late here and I haven't read the entire thread here but this is what I "thought" happened.
1. Nicks DID make the catch in bounds.
2. The refs called passed interference immediately so the Giants did not need to challenge the call.
3. Nicks got credited with the catch and yardage by Elias.
4. What happened with Eli? Does he get extra yardage as well?
Even though I think that the ball was caught in bounds by Nicks, I hate them changing the stats. As long as they are doing changes I really need Elias to find me about 2.5 more points somewhere so that I can win my Primetime game!
Wayne
1. Nicks DID make the catch in bounds.
2. The refs called passed interference immediately so the Giants did not need to challenge the call.
3. Nicks got credited with the catch and yardage by Elias.
4. What happened with Eli? Does he get extra yardage as well?
Even though I think that the ball was caught in bounds by Nicks, I hate them changing the stats. As long as they are doing changes I really need Elias to find me about 2.5 more points somewhere so that I can win my Primetime game!
Wayne