First Impressions of the NFFC Primetime

thegambler · Post by **thegambler** » Wed Sep 21, 2011 3:39 am

Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:
I appreciate the feedback guys and I'm as interested in hearing the feedback as you all are in giving it. For me, I also want to know if:

a) KDS/3RR is holding the NFFC back from growing.

b) If the 12-team format could be better served with an old-fashioned WCOFF setup of straight serpentine and league playoffs. Or is our current Primetime setup of KDS/3RR, 13 weeks of regular season without playoffs the way to go.

c) Is the do-or-die league playoffs in Weeks 12 and 13 more favored by fantasy players than 13 straight weeks of regular season? Is it more fair to reward the best teams through 13 weeks or reward four teams through only 11 weeks and then have h2h matchups determine the top league money winners? I'm interested in this one particularly.

Great thread and thanks for all the honest opinions. All will be taken into consideration for next year's NFFC Primetime format. i can live with the kds but the 3rr sucks....plain and simple (imo)

i really think you need to drop the first two weeks of all play and go to a playoff in week 12 and 13. the wcoff wasn't as big as it was becuase of dustin and jesse, or their great customer service, it was huge becuase people loved their system and how ti was done. i can see that i am in the minority with this here but looking at the ffpc and seeing how much they have grown this year proves to me that people want a playoff.

thegambler · Post by **thegambler** » Wed Sep 21, 2011 3:49 am

if people are scared of the "crap shoot playoffs" that is a easy fix. i was in a league where they gave the higher seeded team points going into the league playoff game. you could either do 10 pts for the higher seed or some kind of percentage of the regular season pts for the league playoff games.

also want to say that this is my first year here and i am having a great time so far. my first take on greg and tom is: these guys know what they are doing and run a top notch league. never been in a HSFF league where the owners ask people for their opinions.....man i love that.

whether anything changes or not i see me becoming a lifer here......now i just need to win some dam games

playoffs are the way to go

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Wed Sep 21, 2011 3:51 am

Originally posted by thegambler:
quote:Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:
I appreciate the feedback guys and I'm as interested in hearing the feedback as you all are in giving it. For me, I also want to know if:

a) KDS/3RR is holding the NFFC back from growing.

b) If the 12-team format could be better served with an old-fashioned WCOFF setup of straight serpentine and league playoffs. Or is our current Primetime setup of KDS/3RR, 13 weeks of regular season without playoffs the way to go.

c) Is the do-or-die league playoffs in Weeks 12 and 13 more favored by fantasy players than 13 straight weeks of regular season? Is it more fair to reward the best teams through 13 weeks or reward four teams through only 11 weeks and then have h2h matchups determine the top league money winners? I'm interested in this one particularly.

Great thread and thanks for all the honest opinions. All will be taken into consideration for next year's NFFC Primetime format. i can live with the kds but the 3rr sucks....plain and simple (imo)

i really think you need to drop the first two weeks of all play and go to a playoff in week 12 and 13. the wcoff wasn't as big as it was becuase of dustin and jesse, or their great customer service, it was huge becuase people loved their system and how ti was done. i can see that i am in the minority with this here but looking at the ffpc and seeing how much they have grown this year proves to me that people want a playoff. [/QUOTE]Andy, I'm interested: Why does 3RR suck? In 12-team leagues especially, don't you believe that the top 4-5 teams who got the stud RBs are also benefitting by getting guys at the beginning of Round 3. I'm looking at one Primetime draft here where the start of the third round was Michael Turner, Mike Wallace, Philip Rivers, Tom Brady and Stevie Johnson. Those players went to Teams 12-8, whereas in a straight serpentine draft they would have gone to teams who had Ray Rice, AP, Andre Johnson and Chris Johnson. I guess we'll have to wait until season's end to see if 3RR did balance the power across all teams, but so far it does seem like that third round is solid with talent and earlier picks are the strongest in that round.

If the growth is entirely on the playoff system, then you're right, TIME TO CHANGE!! Now I'm convinced. I didn't realize that the two-week playoff with thousands of dollars on one game to reward the league's best team was the only system fantasy players would enjoy. Thanks and I'll be interested to see if everyone feels the same way.

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Wed Sep 21, 2011 3:58 am

Originally posted by fflmaster:
i don't know how anyone could say that the same amount of teams are in the money hunt when only top two get paid versus a playoff of four teams.

i hope everyone is correct and teams really value their lifetime standings and keep setting the best lineup possible the entire season. i know i will always keep my league honest when they play my team. however, i expect to be in the money in the end anyway.

let me also say that my first impressions of the NFFC have been great. Just to clarify here: The NFFC Primetime pays the Top 3 teams just like all other contests do. We just reward those teams based on their performance over a 13-week regular season rather than 11 weeks for 12 teams and then two more weeks in a playoff h2h format for just four teams. But at the end of the day, all contests still pay out three spots.

The rationale for how we do it is simple: We used to put too much emphasis on the h2h aspect as well and just feel that over 13 weeks total points is the best indicator of who has the best fantasy team. I understand the thrill of a one-week h2h game for $3,000 or more, but is the best team in that league really the winner of Week 13?? Is that week worth thousands of dollars or having owners agree to split the pot in that game? Maybe and we've been wrong all this time. But our goal is to reward the best team in each league and that's why we go to great lengths to give the prize money to the team that can win both h2h and total points through 13 weeks or to set up a league playoff over three more weeks to teams who split h2h and total points in their leagues. Again, that league playoff is a total points format as we really believe total points is the best indicator of the best team, not a one-week h2h playoff game.

But again, we may be wrong. We're interested in more feedback from those who have played in the other format for years and what they like or dislike about our game format. Thanks for the input.

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Wed Sep 21, 2011 4:02 am

Originally posted by thegambler:
if people are scared of the "crap shoot playoffs" that is a easy fix. i was in a league where they gave the higher seeded team points going into the league playoff game. you could either do 10 pts for the higher seed or some kind of percentage of the regular season pts for the league playoff games.

also want to say that this is my first year here and i am having a great time so far. my first take on greg and tom is: these guys know what they are doing and run a top notch league. never been in a HSFF league where the owners ask people for their opinions.....man i love that.

whether anything changes or not i see me becoming a lifer here......now i just need to win some dam games

playoffs are the way to go See Andy, you have it wrong here. You don't need to win some damn games, YOU NEED TO SCORE A LOT OF POINTS!!!

In the NFFC, scoring a LOT of points is more important than winning every h2h game. You can go 0-13, finish with the most total points in your league and still win $5,000. No playoff game needed for that.

And yes we do enjoy your feedback and make changes because of that. Many of our innovations that people think are niche changes came from customer feedback, not from me or Tom. We just implemented them and over time they've proven to make our game more competitive and better for the players. But if they've prevented us from growing the way we should, then of course they need to be looked at again.

thegambler · Post by **thegambler** » Wed Sep 21, 2011 4:07 am

Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:
quote:Originally posted by thegambler:
quote:Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:
I appreciate the feedback guys and I'm as interested in hearing the feedback as you all are in giving it. For me, I also want to know if:

a) KDS/3RR is holding the NFFC back from growing.

b) If the 12-team format could be better served with an old-fashioned WCOFF setup of straight serpentine and league playoffs. Or is our current Primetime setup of KDS/3RR, 13 weeks of regular season without playoffs the way to go.

c) Is the do-or-die league playoffs in Weeks 12 and 13 more favored by fantasy players than 13 straight weeks of regular season? Is it more fair to reward the best teams through 13 weeks or reward four teams through only 11 weeks and then have h2h matchups determine the top league money winners? I'm interested in this one particularly.

Great thread and thanks for all the honest opinions. All will be taken into consideration for next year's NFFC Primetime format. i can live with the kds but the 3rr sucks....plain and simple (imo)

i really think you need to drop the first two weeks of all play and go to a playoff in week 12 and 13. the wcoff wasn't as big as it was becuase of dustin and jesse, or their great customer service, it was huge becuase people loved their system and how ti was done. i can see that i am in the minority with this here but looking at the ffpc and seeing how much they have grown this year proves to me that people want a playoff. [/QUOTE]Andy, I'm interested: Why does 3RR suck? In 12-team leagues especially, don't you believe that the top 4-5 teams who got the stud RBs are also benefitting by getting guys at the beginning of Round 3. I'm looking at one Primetime draft here where the start of the third round was Michael Turner, Mike Wallace, Philip Rivers, Tom Brady and Stevie Johnson. Those players went to Teams 12-8, whereas in a straight serpentine draft they would have gone to teams who had Ray Rice, AP, Andre Johnson and Chris Johnson. I guess we'll have to wait until season's end to see if 3RR did balance the power across all teams, but so far it does seem like that third round is solid with talent and earlier picks are the strongest in that round.

If the growth is entirely on the playoff system, then you're right, TIME TO CHANGE!! Now I'm convinced. I didn't realize that the two-week playoff with thousands of dollars on one game to reward the league's best team was the only system fantasy players would enjoy. Thanks and I'll be interested to see if everyone feels the same way.

[/QUOTE]greg, i just don't see those stud rb's like there use to be. no more is there a preist holmes or larry johnson or marshall faulk that score soooooo much more then the other backs. the top 5-6 back s are pretty close.....there use to be an advantage to drafting #1 or #2, now theres not.

lets look at the projected top 4 backs:
1. adp- 9th in rb scoring
2. rice- 4th in rb scoring
3. CJ- 30th in rb scoring
4. charles- out for the year (can't predict injuries)

now i know the season is young and there still is a good chance that these guys, particually cj, come around and get back into the top 5 in rb scoring but to start off with cj and then take whichever decent wr at the end of the 2nd and then to have to wait 12 more picks before getting your 3rd guy when teams got a shot at andre johnson, clvin johnson and then vincent jackson, mcfadden and forte and then they still pick in front of you in the 3rd.....tough to over-come. (yeah i know i am rabling)

[ September 21, 2011, 10:20 AM: Message edited by: thegambler ]

thegambler · Post by **thegambler** » Wed Sep 21, 2011 4:10 am

Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:
And yes we do enjoy your feedback and make changes because of that. Many of our innovations that people think are niche changes came from customer feedback, not from me or Tom. We just implemented them and over time they've proven to make our game more competitive and better for the players. But if they've prevented us from growing the way we should, then of course they need to be looked at again. like i said before: think it is great to see owners asking for and responding to players opinions.....now whether you like anything my stupid ass has to say is another thing.

Sandman62 · Post by **Sandman62** » Wed Sep 21, 2011 4:14 am

I would never want to see a playoff system in the Main Events. Heck, after our first year in the NFFC (2008), we quit all our local leagues. Though we often made it to the Super Bowl, a few times we dominated the regular season, then lost one bad/unlucky playoff game and didn't cash for the big bucks.

I think many people might not admit it, but they actually LIKE the idea of not having the better team in a playoff game, yet still having a [fluky] chance of winning and moving on? :rolleyes: But if I had a say, I'd weight the regular season even MORE than the NFFC currently does. We all know that two years ago the $100k Classic winner was the LAST seed coming into the playoffs (probably a H2H winner in his league). And I do understand that having that possibility likely helps these events thrive. But I'd prefer to see something like counting the regular season point average THREE times instead of just once, to provide a more even balance between regular season and playoffs. IMHO, as it is right now, 13 weeks of dominance can be wiped out by 3 weeks of playoff performance because those 13 weeks only count for 1/4 of playoff points. My suggestion would bring it to at least a 50:50 ratio.

Something to think about for future or will it just chase away more customers?

Tom Kessenich · Post by **Tom Kessenich** » Wed Sep 21, 2011 4:19 am

As Greg has been saying, we want to hear your feedback because we'll use it to guide whatever decisions we make going forward. As far as 3RR goes, though, personally I think it's the best way to play as KJ said earlier in the thread. I see a significant amount of value in getting guys like Rice, Peterson and McCoy (all top picks by the time our Main Events occurred) that also enabling them to land a stud WR/QB duo in the second and third rounds provides an even greater advantage.

Without 3RR, a team could have started off its draft with something like Rice, Brady, Vincent Jackson (or Austin although I realize he's hurt now). I think that provides a significant advantage on top of landing a stud player with the first pick.

Again, we want to hear what you guys think and if people think 3RR and/or KDS is holding us back we'll certainly look to make whatever changes are necessary to grow our events. But my personal feeling about 3RR is that it's become an invaluable way to level the playing field in fantasy football. I play in leagues with 3RR and without it and I strongly prefer the leagues with 3RR. Just my two cents.

[ September 21, 2011, 10:20 AM: Message edited by: Tom Kessenich ]

Dave Clum · Post by **Dave Clum** » Wed Sep 21, 2011 4:31 am

I am not a fan of 3RR.But,I would like to see KDS take the next step.Pull names one at a time.Each person chooses his league and draft slot the morning of the event.You would have to decide what is more important slot/league.