This is getting pretty sad.... Perfect drafts, VBD, slot system, if this, if that, ifs ands or buts.
Let's see if I get this right, if we drafted the player with the highest total points, in order mind you before the season starts, that there are favorable draft positions? So let us pick our own draft position so we can win????
Is this the jist of this thread????
Snake draft....the numbers
Snake draft....the numbers
Originally posted by Liquid Empire:
quote:Originally posted by Gordon Gekko:
quote:Originally posted by I Cojones:
Draft slot bidding just changes the way you get to a flawed draft order -- it does not change those flaws.
I think the reason Gekko suggested the slot bidding is because he saw the process was flawed. I suggested it to remove the randomness of assigning draft slots. Owners will make bad picks, sleepers will get picked too early, players will get injured, etc... Slot bidding does NOTHING to change these things. If the light bulb hasn't gone on for you yet, it probably never will. That's okay. The world needs people like you. [/QUOTE]You are such a lame little *****....How dare you try to put down my partner. The world DOES need more people who graduated from an Ivy League with an MBA, someone who is a devoted family man, and someone who has a prestigous career on Wall Street.
Geck - what are your credentials in life? An annoying little message board weasel ? That and a couple of bucks will allow you to ride on the subway here in NYC.
Plus my boy worked for the NFL for 5 years in upper management.....
You work for the NFL in your own mind though....
No F'n Life
I will gladly donate my remaining $284 FAAB sp you can bid on one...
Take your 4-3 cry baby @ss back to lenny and pitch him your bs [/QUOTE]Liquid, this is just an idea here... but did you know that exploding in protection of someone else on an internet message board makes you look childish, immature and stupid? Either the message WAS over the top, in which case those of us reading it already KNOW that or else we felt it was totally appropriate and your post makes you sound like an idiot. Either way, this has no benefit to you or IC. It's obvious you love IC and that's great, but I don't care about his credentials. You laud him and then you call him 'my boy' ? Talk about your classic prop him up and then pull him down...
Then in response to what you perceive as cheap shots on "your boy" you fire back with subway rides and someone else not having a life? My gosh... a good paying job and an Ivy League MBA + $2 gets you enough internet time at kinko's to put up a childish post...
Listen, this isn't an attack, so don't waste your fingers firing off on me. It's more of an 'understand message board dynamics' speech hoping you'll comprehend what I'm saying and not the fact that it's ME saying it.
Regards,
Dave
quote:Originally posted by Gordon Gekko:
quote:Originally posted by I Cojones:
Draft slot bidding just changes the way you get to a flawed draft order -- it does not change those flaws.
I think the reason Gekko suggested the slot bidding is because he saw the process was flawed. I suggested it to remove the randomness of assigning draft slots. Owners will make bad picks, sleepers will get picked too early, players will get injured, etc... Slot bidding does NOTHING to change these things. If the light bulb hasn't gone on for you yet, it probably never will. That's okay. The world needs people like you. [/QUOTE]You are such a lame little *****....How dare you try to put down my partner. The world DOES need more people who graduated from an Ivy League with an MBA, someone who is a devoted family man, and someone who has a prestigous career on Wall Street.
Geck - what are your credentials in life? An annoying little message board weasel ? That and a couple of bucks will allow you to ride on the subway here in NYC.
Plus my boy worked for the NFL for 5 years in upper management.....
You work for the NFL in your own mind though....
No F'n Life
I will gladly donate my remaining $284 FAAB sp you can bid on one...
Take your 4-3 cry baby @ss back to lenny and pitch him your bs [/QUOTE]Liquid, this is just an idea here... but did you know that exploding in protection of someone else on an internet message board makes you look childish, immature and stupid? Either the message WAS over the top, in which case those of us reading it already KNOW that or else we felt it was totally appropriate and your post makes you sound like an idiot. Either way, this has no benefit to you or IC. It's obvious you love IC and that's great, but I don't care about his credentials. You laud him and then you call him 'my boy' ? Talk about your classic prop him up and then pull him down...
Then in response to what you perceive as cheap shots on "your boy" you fire back with subway rides and someone else not having a life? My gosh... a good paying job and an Ivy League MBA + $2 gets you enough internet time at kinko's to put up a childish post...
Listen, this isn't an attack, so don't waste your fingers firing off on me. It's more of an 'understand message board dynamics' speech hoping you'll comprehend what I'm saying and not the fact that it's ME saying it.
Regards,
Dave
The Wonderful thing about Dyv's is I'm the only one!
Snake draft....the numbers
Originally posted by Vega$ Gambler$:
This is getting pretty sad.... Perfect drafts, VBD, slot system, if this, if that, ifs ands or buts.
Let's see if I get this right, if we drafted the player with the highest total points, in order mind you before the season starts, that there are favorable draft positions? So let us pick our own draft position so we can win????
Is this the jist of this thread???? LOL, actually... yes, that's a big chunk of it
lol
Dave
This is getting pretty sad.... Perfect drafts, VBD, slot system, if this, if that, ifs ands or buts.
Let's see if I get this right, if we drafted the player with the highest total points, in order mind you before the season starts, that there are favorable draft positions? So let us pick our own draft position so we can win????
Is this the jist of this thread???? LOL, actually... yes, that's a big chunk of it
lol
Dave
The Wonderful thing about Dyv's is I'm the only one!
Snake draft....the numbers
Originally posted by UFS:
quote:Originally posted by KJ Duke:
quote:Originally posted by I Cojones:
KJ -- I could see being unhappy if the serpentine was changed after you got a top pick, but if you knew going into it that it was a midified serpentine, what would make you unhappy? I wouldn't want #1-2 to start with in a lge of 14-15 teams. To be further punished with the modified order would make it even worse.
The result = same problem as before;it just shifts the bad slots (at least based on this yr's draft) from the end to the beginning. [/QUOTE]I'm very curious, what are the "bad" slots, and how do you determine them? [/QUOTE](1) In such a large lge I don't like picking at the turns because a run on players can start and end without the opportunity for a pick.
(2) A good slot is where I expect to get the most value. This depends on who I see as the most undervalued relative to their expected draft spot.
Sticking with my Duce Staley theme which everyone seems to love, I had the top 8-9 players ranked in a tier above the next 10 or so. So if I miss all of those players the next tranche are all about equal. Duce, who I projected to go late 2nd rd or early 3rd rd and Hines who I expected to go mid to late 2 were both in this second tier. If I draft from a top 7 or 8 slot I am able to acquire, lets say, Jamal Lewis or Randy Moss in rd 1, Hines Ward in rd 2 and Duce in early rd 3. By missing out on those first tier players, I end up with Duce and Hines in rd 1 and 2 and a late 3rd rounder rather than a 1st rounder. That is the difference slot position made for me this yr, Jamal Lewis or Randy Moss versus a 3rd rounder. Beyond rd 4 probably doesn't make much difference because there becomes a very large variance in where players are drafted.
What is important here, is that the best slots (for point #2) will change each year based on the difference between my rankings and expected draft slots for top players. The best slots will also differ for others based on their own rankings, even if they used my approach. These factors along with injuries and other issues also make evaluating draft slot results relatively meaningless, especially across different years.
quote:Originally posted by KJ Duke:
quote:Originally posted by I Cojones:
KJ -- I could see being unhappy if the serpentine was changed after you got a top pick, but if you knew going into it that it was a midified serpentine, what would make you unhappy? I wouldn't want #1-2 to start with in a lge of 14-15 teams. To be further punished with the modified order would make it even worse.
The result = same problem as before;it just shifts the bad slots (at least based on this yr's draft) from the end to the beginning. [/QUOTE]I'm very curious, what are the "bad" slots, and how do you determine them? [/QUOTE](1) In such a large lge I don't like picking at the turns because a run on players can start and end without the opportunity for a pick.
(2) A good slot is where I expect to get the most value. This depends on who I see as the most undervalued relative to their expected draft spot.
Sticking with my Duce Staley theme which everyone seems to love, I had the top 8-9 players ranked in a tier above the next 10 or so. So if I miss all of those players the next tranche are all about equal. Duce, who I projected to go late 2nd rd or early 3rd rd and Hines who I expected to go mid to late 2 were both in this second tier. If I draft from a top 7 or 8 slot I am able to acquire, lets say, Jamal Lewis or Randy Moss in rd 1, Hines Ward in rd 2 and Duce in early rd 3. By missing out on those first tier players, I end up with Duce and Hines in rd 1 and 2 and a late 3rd rounder rather than a 1st rounder. That is the difference slot position made for me this yr, Jamal Lewis or Randy Moss versus a 3rd rounder. Beyond rd 4 probably doesn't make much difference because there becomes a very large variance in where players are drafted.
What is important here, is that the best slots (for point #2) will change each year based on the difference between my rankings and expected draft slots for top players. The best slots will also differ for others based on their own rankings, even if they used my approach. These factors along with injuries and other issues also make evaluating draft slot results relatively meaningless, especially across different years.
-
Route Collectors
- Posts: 3525
- Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 6:00 pm
Snake draft....the numbers
I agree with Dave, although it's a little unfair to single out Liquid. This idea will never take off as long as it is approached with childish dialogue. Why would Greg want to implement something that creates such controversy? There are how many - 20 or so MB regulars? Less than 10% of the field. How many more that read but don't respond? Some have tried to break into the inner circle of the MB and are usually ignored.
A little mutual respect could go a long way. If you want to reach the mass audience, stop referring to them as sheep,stupid.idiots...etc.
I'll bet Greg doesn't look at each $1250 and seperate the stupid $1250 from the intelligent $1250.
Just a suggestion: Start objectively looking at the pros and cons of this issue.
That said, here is my take along with a question for anyone who cares to comment.
I like draft slot bidding because I think it would add an element of fun to the game. That's it - no #'s, no data, just fun to me.
I respect others opinions, I'm just not that worked up about it.
It has been stated that draft slot bidding will level the playing field.
Here's my question:
How can that guaranteed on a national level?
Let's say league A has a high bid of 650 for pick 4. League B has a high bid of 350 for pick 4. Following JP's original thought, both owners draft the exact same team.
What are the chances that the league B owner has an advantage in FAAB over the league A owner.
If both owners conserve all FAAB until Droughns becomes a hot commodity, team B wins.
Again my question is:
How can a level playing field be guaranteed on a national level?
RC
A little mutual respect could go a long way. If you want to reach the mass audience, stop referring to them as sheep,stupid.idiots...etc.
I'll bet Greg doesn't look at each $1250 and seperate the stupid $1250 from the intelligent $1250.
Just a suggestion: Start objectively looking at the pros and cons of this issue.
That said, here is my take along with a question for anyone who cares to comment.
I like draft slot bidding because I think it would add an element of fun to the game. That's it - no #'s, no data, just fun to me.
I respect others opinions, I'm just not that worked up about it.
It has been stated that draft slot bidding will level the playing field.
Here's my question:
How can that guaranteed on a national level?
Let's say league A has a high bid of 650 for pick 4. League B has a high bid of 350 for pick 4. Following JP's original thought, both owners draft the exact same team.
What are the chances that the league B owner has an advantage in FAAB over the league A owner.
If both owners conserve all FAAB until Droughns becomes a hot commodity, team B wins.
Again my question is:
How can a level playing field be guaranteed on a national level?
RC
-
JerseyPaul
- Posts: 786
- Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2004 6:00 pm
Snake draft....the numbers
Route C,
Good post.
I'm only trying to level the field within my one league. Within my league I have as good a chance as anybody else to take advantage of a drafting mistake by someone else.
There is NO mechanism to level the "across-league" issue. If I was in LV2 I would have had Harrison, Holt, Barber and Moulds instead of Harrison, Holt, Moulds and Wheatley. No big deal, lol...just being a contender versus a pretender.
As the serenity prayer says, let's try to get control over the things we can control and not worry about the others.
Good post.
I'm only trying to level the field within my one league. Within my league I have as good a chance as anybody else to take advantage of a drafting mistake by someone else.
There is NO mechanism to level the "across-league" issue. If I was in LV2 I would have had Harrison, Holt, Barber and Moulds instead of Harrison, Holt, Moulds and Wheatley. No big deal, lol...just being a contender versus a pretender.
As the serenity prayer says, let's try to get control over the things we can control and not worry about the others.
Snake draft....the numbers
Serenity Now! Serenity Now!
Hello. My name is Lee Scoresby. I come from Texas, like flying hot-air balloons, being eaten by talking polar bears and fantasy football.
-
Gordon Gekko
- Posts: 7222
- Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2004 6:00 pm
Snake draft....the numbers
Originally posted by Route C:
Why would Greg want to implement something that creates such controversy? it's not the idea that brings controversy, it's the posters. as i've said many time. i'll get with a team of people (staff?) and come up with a nice format that clearly displays our position on blind bidding for draft slots. I'll make sure i use the words "please" and "thank you" at least 10 times when it gets rolled out.
Originally posted by Route C:
Some have tried to break into the inner circle of the MB and are usually ignored. inner circle? feels like i'm on an island. listen, if people bring worthwhile things to the table, they will not be ignored.
Originally posted by Route C:
I'll bet Greg doesn't look at each $1250 and seperate the stupid $1250 from the intelligent $1250.i'm not sure who looks at the money, but any good business model clearly breaks people into different "groups"
Originally posted by Route C:
Here's my question:
How can that guaranteed on a national level?
Let's say league A has a high bid of 650 for pick 4. League B has a high bid of 350 for pick 4. Following JP's original thought, both owners draft the exact same team.
What are the chances that the league B owner has an advantage in FAAB over the league A owner.
If both owners conserve all FAAB until Droughns becomes a hot commodity, team B wins.
Again my question is:
How can a level playing field be guaranteed on a national level? blind bidding is used to even the playing field in each league. looking at FA$ BETWEEN leagues is meaningless.
Why would Greg want to implement something that creates such controversy? it's not the idea that brings controversy, it's the posters. as i've said many time. i'll get with a team of people (staff?) and come up with a nice format that clearly displays our position on blind bidding for draft slots. I'll make sure i use the words "please" and "thank you" at least 10 times when it gets rolled out.
Originally posted by Route C:
Some have tried to break into the inner circle of the MB and are usually ignored. inner circle? feels like i'm on an island. listen, if people bring worthwhile things to the table, they will not be ignored.
Originally posted by Route C:
I'll bet Greg doesn't look at each $1250 and seperate the stupid $1250 from the intelligent $1250.i'm not sure who looks at the money, but any good business model clearly breaks people into different "groups"
Originally posted by Route C:
Here's my question:
How can that guaranteed on a national level?
Let's say league A has a high bid of 650 for pick 4. League B has a high bid of 350 for pick 4. Following JP's original thought, both owners draft the exact same team.
What are the chances that the league B owner has an advantage in FAAB over the league A owner.
If both owners conserve all FAAB until Droughns becomes a hot commodity, team B wins.
Again my question is:
How can a level playing field be guaranteed on a national level? blind bidding is used to even the playing field in each league. looking at FA$ BETWEEN leagues is meaningless.
Is my "weekend warrior" prep better than your prep?
-
TradeStar28
- Posts: 2169
- Joined: Wed Jun 02, 2004 6:00 pm
Snake draft....the numbers
Originally posted by Gordon Gekko:
P.S. Please respond to this thread and all others. Your posts will be read religiously.
As for my life credentials, I'll leave you with this. I'm a high school dropout. I live with my mom (in the basement actually). I work as a water delivery guy making a little above minimum wage. And you are my message board daddy. Go figure! You forgot to tell everyone about your alternative lifestyle. Suprised you didnt draft Jeff Garcia.
I am like the T.O. of fantasy football. I back my words up with the scoreboard and wins!
How you like being 4-3? I am sure it has let you to give us tireless banter on this message forum because your team blows.
As far as Greg and Tom as concerned...let them speak for themselves without you putting words in their mouths....I am sure they sit in their nice office in Wisconsin thinking about how much of a major tool you are but they gotta deal with it because you are a paying customer. Lenny didnt wanna deal with your BS so you came here to annoy us all. Atleast you are a paying customer because some of that cash will be coming to me with a division title.
My guess is that you and your blind bidding draft positions will be laid out to the pasture. Try to think of ways to win some games and have a better draft. Dare to be different is only good in the bars you hang out in.
Btw Dyv - "My boy" refers to friend, good buddy, pal, etc.
It would be like me saying, "Hey whats up bro?" even though you ain't my brother....(Thank God)
ANd finally Geck...I am sure you are reading this message RIGHT NOW !
Muhahaha
[ October 28, 2004, 12:59 PM: Message edited by: Liquid Empire ]
P.S. Please respond to this thread and all others. Your posts will be read religiously.
As for my life credentials, I'll leave you with this. I'm a high school dropout. I live with my mom (in the basement actually). I work as a water delivery guy making a little above minimum wage. And you are my message board daddy. Go figure! You forgot to tell everyone about your alternative lifestyle. Suprised you didnt draft Jeff Garcia.
I am like the T.O. of fantasy football. I back my words up with the scoreboard and wins!
How you like being 4-3? I am sure it has let you to give us tireless banter on this message forum because your team blows.
As far as Greg and Tom as concerned...let them speak for themselves without you putting words in their mouths....I am sure they sit in their nice office in Wisconsin thinking about how much of a major tool you are but they gotta deal with it because you are a paying customer. Lenny didnt wanna deal with your BS so you came here to annoy us all. Atleast you are a paying customer because some of that cash will be coming to me with a division title.
My guess is that you and your blind bidding draft positions will be laid out to the pasture. Try to think of ways to win some games and have a better draft. Dare to be different is only good in the bars you hang out in.
Btw Dyv - "My boy" refers to friend, good buddy, pal, etc.
It would be like me saying, "Hey whats up bro?" even though you ain't my brother....(Thank God)
ANd finally Geck...I am sure you are reading this message RIGHT NOW !
Muhahaha
[ October 28, 2004, 12:59 PM: Message edited by: Liquid Empire ]
2012 - FI$HER - Flying High Again
Snake draft....the numbers
Sorry if I'm not hip enough to understand the nuances of boy and bro in modern english. "My brother (or bro)" doesn't seem to have a negative, it implies equal or peer relations. "My boy" seems to imply a level of relationship where one is above the other. Again, these are simply impressions. The fact is any communicator bears some responsibility for conveying the correct (intended) message. I can only assume that you did convey what you intended. I can't interpret what I think maybe you meant to say.
Incidentally, if God had made you my brother I bet I would have understood what you were trying to say... and our poor Mom would have killed herself by now
Having said all that, let me try to refocus the debate:
You have to have a core assumption in all of this, and then I think it becomes far easier to discuss. You have to assume that some method will be created by which each participant will fully understand the process and the repercussions of what each draft slot has to offer and what FA budget has to offer. On a different thread just a while ago I discussed who two different participants could EACH benefit from bidding on their slot in their own way. ASSUMING that it would be made clear (by examples and a series of short articles or point-counterpoint discussing why you would bid high vs. why you wouldn't bid anything, etc.)... again... ASSUMING that everyone understands how to bid for their draft slot, then...
Isn't it a zero-harm, only benefit concept?
(AGAIN, ASSUME that it is clearly understood by all participants)
Thanks for any thoughts, corrections or feelings-of-familial-relationship slang from all my homeys and fizzle-challenged boyz.
Dyv
Incidentally, if God had made you my brother I bet I would have understood what you were trying to say... and our poor Mom would have killed herself by now
Having said all that, let me try to refocus the debate:
You have to have a core assumption in all of this, and then I think it becomes far easier to discuss. You have to assume that some method will be created by which each participant will fully understand the process and the repercussions of what each draft slot has to offer and what FA budget has to offer. On a different thread just a while ago I discussed who two different participants could EACH benefit from bidding on their slot in their own way. ASSUMING that it would be made clear (by examples and a series of short articles or point-counterpoint discussing why you would bid high vs. why you wouldn't bid anything, etc.)... again... ASSUMING that everyone understands how to bid for their draft slot, then...
Isn't it a zero-harm, only benefit concept?
(AGAIN, ASSUME that it is clearly understood by all participants)
Thanks for any thoughts, corrections or feelings-of-familial-relationship slang from all my homeys and fizzle-challenged boyz.
Dyv
The Wonderful thing about Dyv's is I'm the only one!