H2H Exposed Part 1

bill · Post by **bill** » Wed Nov 05, 2008 5:54 am

I do prefer the all-play to total points for the reason I have seen some of you mention. A player
(like Brett Favre against the Cardinals) can score around 50 points in one week. They play below average the next 4 weeks but that one big point total keeps getting carried forward.

My personal preference on how to determine standings would go like this.

1. All-play records
Tie for 2nd. Won/loss records with doubleheaders each week and total points

mikeybok · Post by **mikeybok** » Wed Nov 05, 2008 6:06 am

Food for thought.

I also think H2H adds a lot of luck and would prefer to play total points without playoffs (like the DC's).

But if H2H draws good players in and gives them a chance, I would prefer to play mostly good players with H2H and playoffs, than play all top players with total points only.

It is a stark difference playing in a league with the best players and particularly shows up in FA. You fight for FA crumbs in those leagues IMO.

mikeybok · Post by **mikeybok** » Wed Nov 05, 2008 6:10 am

... but I am not convinced that H2H is what draws a lot of good players in. You might get just as many or more good players with all-play or total points ... as I can not speak for the "masses" on this point. Maybe we should check with Renman?

lumpy463 · Post by **lumpy463** » Wed Nov 05, 2008 6:14 am

I will say it again:

Best H2H
Total Points not H2H
Best All Play not H2H or Total Points

All three make the Overall Championship Round!

All three have a League Championship Round!
Pay out 1st, 2nd, and 3rd based on Total Points Week 14-16

What is the drawback to this set up?
This offers everyone the format fo their choice.

Derek "Lumpy" Anderson

ultimatefs · Post by **ultimatefs** » Wed Nov 05, 2008 6:30 am

Originally posted by Derek Anderson:
I will say it again:

Best H2H
Total Points not H2H
Best All Play not H2H or Total Points

All three make the Overall Championship Round!

All three have a League Championship Round!
Pay out 1st, 2nd, and 3rd based on Total Points Week 14-16

What is the drawback to this set up?
This offers everyone the format fo their choice.

Derek "Lumpy" Anderson What if an owner is 1st in all three of these?

Why should he have to be forced to be in a playoff?

------------------------------------

Take #1 in each of these and do what is done now.

Right now, it's $2500/$2500 and $2500 for playoff winner. (except win h2h winner is total pts winner also and he gets $5k and no playoff)

Make it $1700/1700/1700 and $2500 for playoff winner.
-------------------------------------

If someone is first in two of the three, he wins $3400 and $2500 for league. He deserves it.

Only use playoff when there are three different teams that win each cat.

[ November 05, 2008, 12:33 PM: Message edited by: JohnZ ]

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Wed Nov 05, 2008 7:26 am

Originally posted by Ugly Yellow Tomatoes:
... but I am not convinced that H2H is what draws a lot of good players in. You might get just as many or more good players with all-play or total points ... as I can not speak for the "masses" on this point. Maybe we should check with Renman? Mike, I know you've been giving James a lot of crap for his statement, but I have to admit that I think he is correct. I think the majority of fantasy players still enjoy h2h and it would be a tough business plan to change everything to all-play with the statement that "you might get just as many or more good players with all-play or total points."

I enjoy seeing the all-play discussion, but renman was not wrong with his assessment of the industry when it comes to h2h in fantasy football.

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Wed Nov 05, 2008 7:30 am

Originally posted by Derek Anderson:
I will say it again:

Best H2H
Total Points not H2H
Best All Play not H2H or Total Points

All three make the Overall Championship Round!

All three have a League Championship Round!
Pay out 1st, 2nd, and 3rd based on Total Points Week 14-16

What is the drawback to this set up?
This offers everyone the format fo their choice.

Derek "Lumpy" Anderson It doesn't reward the 13 weeks of the regular season well enough. As John says, what happens to the team that dominates all regular season long and then limps to the finish line in Weeks 14-16. Jules dominated her league two years ago and then had all kinds of injuries at the end. Why shouldn't she be rewarded with $5,000 after Week 13 rather than earn it again in Weeks 14-16.

I think there could be a point about adding a third league team to the Championship Round, but even that might be diluting the value of getting to the $100,000 race. But don't you think there still needs to be a solid prize if your team dominates h2h and total points for 13 weeks??

mikeybok · Post by **mikeybok** » Wed Nov 05, 2008 8:02 am

Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:
quote:Originally posted by Ugly Yellow Tomatoes:
... but I am not convinced that H2H is what draws a lot of good players in. You might get just as many or more good players with all-play or total points ... as I can not speak for the "masses" on this point. Maybe we should check with Renman? Mike, I know you've been giving James a lot of crap for his statement, but I have to admit that I think he is correct. I think the majority of fantasy players still enjoy h2h and it would be a tough business plan to change everything to all-play with the statement that "you might get just as many or more good players with all-play or total points."

I enjoy seeing the all-play discussion, but renman was not wrong with his assessment of the industry when it comes to h2h in fantasy football. [/QUOTE]The problem with Renman goes way back ... I bent over back words to be nice to him. Feel free to check out our PM's. All he does is call me a liar ... then denies it ... it ticks me off.

He must be insecure ... because he feels a need to "speak for the Masses" and then state his opinion as fact and when others don't agree with him (he is actually shocked they would dispute his facts). He actually told Gekko that Gekko could not think the way Gekko does because the data (not sure what data he has) does not support Gekko's being able to have his own opinion (not even sure what that means?).

I agree (in my opinion) H2H is more popular than total points with the masses. But it is NOT a FACT ... regardless of what the three of us think. It is at best ... an educated guess.

He type's ... "I can speak for the masses" ... or ... "I speak for every knowledgeable FF player in the whole world" in every other post ... it gets old. If he can says he speaks for the masses ... I certainly feel justified in saying he does not.

I know ... dumb post ... never argue with an idiot ... he'll just bring you down to his level and beat you from experience. OK ... I'll take a break from the boards for a while.

BTW ... it would be nice to get an update after week 10 (one more update) to see who still qualifies in both contests.

Mike

renman · Post by **renman** » Wed Nov 05, 2008 8:13 am

Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:
quote:Originally posted by Ugly Yellow Tomatoes:
... but I am not convinced that H2H is what draws a lot of good players in. You might get just as many or more good players with all-play or total points ... as I can not speak for the "masses" on this point. Maybe we should check with Renman? Mike, I know you've been giving James a lot of crap for his statement, but I have to admit that I think he is correct. I think the majority of fantasy players still enjoy h2h and it would be a tough business plan to change everything to all-play with the statement that "you might get just as many or more good players with all-play or total points."

I enjoy seeing the all-play discussion, but renman was not wrong with his assessment of the industry when it comes to h2h in fantasy football. [/QUOTE]Greg,

I could say the sky is blue and Ugly is going to have a problem with it. Just the way it goes on a message board sometimes. In the spirit of keeping the new boards hostility free, I will ignore it until things get back to football and get friendly.

I do not think my position is overly complex. I am also not at all against an all play format or some other format that moves away from H2H. We all know H2H involves a good bit of luck, just like most competitions do in some form. I would argue I might be the UNLUCKIEST person in the entire NBC primetime event as I believe I am in the top ten in total points and have a losing record. I have been unlucky in other NFFC seasons as well. I know full well about how unpleasant it can be being unluckly in H2H. I also know how it feels to be fortunate as in the NFFC main I have a good record with a pedestrian total points ranking.

My point is the same as it was when being against the BBDS concept for the NFFC a couple years ago. These innovative or fringe formats are fine for satellites if there is a market for them. They are not fine for the main event that needs to appeal to the format that the masses are used to or most interested in consuming. I feel comfortable "speaking for the masses" that the vast majority of fantasy football players in the market consume a H2H format or are used to that. I think most enjoy it as the growth in fantasy football over the last 10 years would reflect. I think the fantasy football sharks at the top of the industry have a need to control as much as possible and H2H is something we cannot control much.

So while I think there is a place for all play formats and the discussion is a worthy one, I still believe the current balance between H2H and total points used in the NFFC now is ideal. We still have the unpredictable H2H experience and the thrills and misery it can bring... while we have protection for the better teams via the total points rule.

What is wrong with that?

[ November 05, 2008, 03:33 PM: Message edited by: Renman ]

Team Canada · Post by **Team Canada** » Wed Nov 05, 2008 10:14 am

H2H is really fun in a local league...
I just don't get how anyone betting this amount of money is wanting to have more luck involved then just good old injuries

I've been on the good side of the LUCK and more often the bad

Always hate it with a passion always will anything of an improvement would be amazing