What Is Going To Happen To High-Stakes Fantasy Football?

DoubleG · Post by **DoubleG** » Wed Aug 10, 2011 12:51 pm

my last post on wcoff boards before they booted my post and me...
IF the transaction fell apart, then pay everyone their hard earned money NOW. {wcoff had previously said ALL money is accounted for and was in Atlanta, but it was "tied up" because of the "transaction"}

AGAIN, IF THE TRANSACTION IS OFF, PAY PEOPLE THEIR MONEY...UNLESS YOU'VE BEEN LYING TO EVERYONE THIS WHOLE TIME.

[ August 10, 2011, 06:52 PM: Message edited by: DoubleG ]

Glenneration X · Post by **Glenneration X** » Wed Aug 10, 2011 1:33 pm

Originally posted by Tom Kessenich:
Glenn Lowy is a great guy and there's no question he has a huge personal stake at that situation being resolved but he should not be the one making posts about the status of the alleged transaction. Tom, believe me that I know it's not my place to be giving out new information on what is happening at the WCOFF. I am not comfortable at all with being perceived as a WCOFF spokesman, especially when I don't always have all the information. That isn't why I play this game. That isn't what I am.

However, the silence was deafening. When I saw others owed money or hoping for the survival of the game making pleas to an ownership group that I knew was no longer an option, I couldn't bear to watch it continue. I thought it only fair to these players who've done nothing wrong that I share the knowledge that their pleas were being made to a group that was no longer listening.

Do I think that this information should be coming from a different direction? Of course, but that isn't and wasn't happening. Sometimes it's better to hear what you don't want to hear than to just be left wondering. That's all I was trying to do for the others that are in similar positions that I'm in.

Tom Kessenich · Post by **Tom Kessenich** » Wed Aug 10, 2011 1:45 pm

Glenn, I'm not blaming you at all for posting what you've been told. You're trying to provide information to people who badly need it. I have no problem with that whatsoever. What bothers me is the people in charge are allowing information to be presented by their players. That's simply poor business, no ifs ands or buts about it. You and everyone else who has played that game, and certainly those who still haven't been paid, deserve much better than to be strung along by silence and having to resort to fellow competitors providing any type of information. It's mind-boggling to me that this is the approach being utilized.

fflmaster · Post by **fflmaster** » Wed Aug 10, 2011 2:12 pm

Glenn

Do you know when this deal fell apart?

And why hasn't Ian posted an update that he was no longer interested?

I know a few people stupidly sent in money (they will never see again now) after his so-called unofficial official announcement.

Ian also needs to just say he is out.

DoubleG · Post by **DoubleG** » Wed Aug 10, 2011 2:12 pm

fyi - i spoke to an attorney for a few minutes tonight. tried to give them as much info as i could about wcoff situation.

summary...

* basically fraud would be difficult to prove (but possible)
* if person wanted best chance of getting as much of their money as possible...contact an attorney ASAP (attorney that specializes in "contract" law is optimal). try and get free consultation and see if attorney will take your case and for how much. obviously it might not be cost effective for individual people owed smaller amounts. but for people owed 50K, 100K, 200K+, what do you have to lose? an attorney will be able to negotiate a much better return on your money than you could ever do.

again, my couple minute conversation just scratched the surface. seek legal advice for all your options.

King of Queens · Post by **King of Queens** » Wed Aug 10, 2011 2:36 pm

One of my all-time favorite movie scenes:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZnB81WkzNZ0

Now imagine what the reaction would be if WCOFF management just came out and told the truth.

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Wed Aug 10, 2011 2:45 pm

Originally posted by DoubleG:
my last post on wcoff boards before they booted my post and me...
IF the transaction fell apart, then pay everyone their hard earned money NOW. {wcoff had previously said ALL money is accounted for and was in Atlanta, but it was "tied up" because of the "transaction"}

AGAIN, IF THE TRANSACTION IS OFF, PAY PEOPLE THEIR MONEY...UNLESS YOU'VE BEEN LYING TO EVERYONE THIS WHOLE TIME. I think someone doesn't like you over there.

There's been a lot worse said today on those boards than that and those posts haven't been deleted. I'm surprised someone is banning posters today rather than just updating the status of prize payouts and ownership change. That seems to be more important than banning you from the boards.

Either way, it's time for an update and an official one at that. If the sale fell through and the future of the contest depended on that, then players should be told that. Past football players and current baseball players should be told that. But if the sale fell through and there are other ways to pay players and continue on, then say that, too. The silence is just leading to more frustration and more uncertainty. Glenn provided the first news in 6 days and he's just a player hoping to win the baseball title and $200,000. Why should he have to break the news, good or bad? He just wants to play and win. He's another GREAT GUY who is caught in the middle of a big, big mess. And a mess that is embarrassing for our industry.

Ted's Cracked Head · Post by **Ted's Cracked Head** » Wed Aug 10, 2011 4:13 pm

I read a great paper written by Marc Edelman today entitled, “A SHORT TREATISE ON FANTASY SPORTS AND THE LAW: HOW AMERICA REGULATES ITS NEW NATIONAL PASTIME”. It left me with the feeling that if I were the Attorney General of a State and these complaints crossed my desk, the easiest way to protect my residents would be to ban the game.

Marc posted a link to his paper today on FB but the link is no longer active. It is 62 pages and is must read for players and providers. The article will appear in the January 2012 Harvard Sports & Entertainment Law Journal.

I have asked Marc to comment on what affect these failure to pay could have on the industry as a whole.

If the WCOFF goes belly up and does not pay out the hundreds of thousands it is currently on the hook for, it could put the entire industry at risk, especially games that charge a fee and offer prizes.

If you were the Attorney General and had constituents who were defrauded out of hundreds of thousands of dollars, wouldn’t it be easiest to simply render a decision that would make these games illegal? Several States have already done this and in previous years, I thought that they were identified in the NFFC’s rules.

I just looked at the NFFC’s rules and could not find an “eligibility” clause? Are residents of all 50 states allowed to play this year?

Marc Edelman is a member of the faculty at Barry University‟s Dwayne O. Andreas School of Law in Orlando, Florida ([email protected]). Professor Edelman earned his B.S. in economics from the Wharton School (University of Pennsylvania) and both his J.D. and M.A. from the University of Michigan. While a law student at the University of Michigan, Professor Edelman founded the fantasy sports dispute resolution business, SportsJudge.com. In addition, Professor Edelman has served as a legal consultant to various fantasy sports businesses.

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Wed Aug 10, 2011 4:30 pm

Rob, no states currently have rules banning fantasy sports. There are six states with vague language about skill vs. luck contests that pay out cash prizes and some contests avoid them. We never have. There is a federal law with fantasy sports carveout language in the Anti-Internet Gambling Bill that tells you exactly how to run a legal fantasy game and we comply with everything listed there.

I do hear what you are saying about an aggressive attorney general and there is no doubt we will be under the microscope now. I trust that AG could be in Missouri if this hits the national newswires and he gets bombarded with complaints. This has the potential to hurt all of us and we've been saying that for months. NOBODY ever wanted this to happen, but it's here. Now we have to protect players going forward and deal with the mess left behind. Game operators in this space should form together right now to ensure that this never happens again and it's not that hard to ensure that. It's time to do it.

I applaud the die-hard owners still in that contest for saying they will do anything possible with past prizes owed to save the contest. I trust that if it could go forward there would be hundreds of teams signed up immediately. But running this year's contest isn't the problem. It's the past prizes owed from football, past expenses, 2011 baseball owed, initial investments to consider and more. It's bigger than just the prizes for the next contest. It's the damage from the past that makes it tough to go forward, which is what seems to be being said on those boards now.

You are right Rob. This is a sad, sad time for what was the fastest growing pay area in the industry.

pizzatyme · Post by **pizzatyme** » Wed Aug 10, 2011 7:17 pm

I am sick! What a shame for all parties involved.

It reminds me of a recent murder trial where there were lies, misdirection, silence, etc.

What worries me is what happens to everyone who has paid for 2011, booked flights and hotel rooms and show up to an empty ballroom. Or worse yet, there is an event held and those not paid and not participating in that event but in others, show up and cause a riot!

What has this hobby come to?