What Is Going To Happen To High-Stakes Fantasy Football?

Greg Ambrosius
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Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2004 6:00 pm

What Is Going To Happen To High-Stakes Fantasy Football?

Post by Greg Ambrosius » Wed Aug 10, 2011 11:17 pm

Originally posted by Just Russ:
I am sick! What a shame for all parties involved.

It reminds me of a recent murder trial where there were lies, misdirection, silence, etc.

What worries me is what happens to everyone who has paid for 2011, booked flights and hotel rooms and show up to an empty ballroom. Or worse yet, there is an event held and those not paid and not participating in that event but in others, show up and cause a riot!

What has this hobby come to? :( Russ, this area of the hobby has reached its lowest level ever if a default of prizes happens as customers are saying on those boards. This will now be five major contests in the last 3-4 years that have defaulted on prizes. There's no doubt this is the one that will cause the most harm because the prize amount could equal or surpass the other four combined. That's unbelievable.

However, fantasy football isn't to blame for this. The game operators are to blame. Look at each case and you can see where the fault lies. Crazy guaranteed prizes that couldn't be fulfilled. Incredibly high expenses on things that weren't needed. Guarantees that were too good to be true. It all looked so good and just for playing fantasy football. It wasn't the game that was at fault, in each case it was the game operators and their big aspirations for this space.

It's now time to get back to common sense and get this ship back in shape. If there are going to be only two game operators left in the live events space then we need to stop competing for market share and make sure there is a market left when the ashes have been put out. We need to work together to ensure that this never happens again. We need to ensure customers that our prize money is guaranteed, safe and sound, and that our guaranteed prizes can be reached and payouts will go out on time. And for consumers: It's Buyer Beware. Going forward, new entities need to have all of the safeguards in place before they earn our trust. Anybody can have grand ideas (WIN $! MILLION!!), but it's executing them that is the hard part.

Again, our hobby isn't to blame for these past transgressions. Fantasy football is still a great hobby, but those people who were left in charge of this area of the space have failed thousands and thousands of players who trusted them. The damage is severe and could be even more severe if it leads to more serious scrutiny. But now is the time to prevent this from ever happening again and saying ENOUGH IS ENOUGH. It's time for the rest of us to prevent this from ever happening again (I know we said that 2 or 3 times before). But this is crazy stupid and crazy serious in these crazy economic times. Nobody can afford this mistake, but it looks like it has happened.

Let's never let it happen again.
Founder, National Fantasy Football Championship & National Fantasy Baseball Championship
Twitter: @GregAmbrosius

Greg Ambrosius
Posts: 36413
Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2004 6:00 pm

What Is Going To Happen To High-Stakes Fantasy Football?

Post by Greg Ambrosius » Wed Aug 10, 2011 11:34 pm

When I started this topic in April my concern was that this area of the space was in jeopardy if anything happened with the prize payouts from the other contest. As I stated, this was one of the fastest growing areas of the pay model in fantasy sports with continued growth every year since 2002. But if there was any default of prizes here, we all knew that this growth trend would likely end.

So now here we are. It's the lowest point in our space for players EVER.

I have no idea how those hundreds and hundreds of players get paid their hundreds and hundreds of thousands of dollars. Short of a philanthropist coming to the rescue, I don't know how it happens. It's the worst possible news in one of the worst economic conditions for those players. Add that to the 137-day NFL lockout and this space is threatened in more ways than ever imaginable.

Yet hopefully players can still trust this industry going forward. I'm not sure how we as an industry regain that trust, but I know there are still two good live event game operators moving forward for football and now is the time for both companies to do everything they possibly can for the consumers. We need to help those players who still want to play and make sure this never happens again. I think you can count on both of us to be in communication with each other to do everything we can to grow the space and to get all of the remaining players united as one. I think the days of contest loyalty and ripping the competitors needs to end as we all need to work together to grow this space again. Nobody wants to see any contest crash and burn, but there are still good options out there with us and the FFPC and now is the time to welcome those players into BOTH contests. Hell, both have different formats, different rules, different price levels, pay levels, first class live events. We need to embrace participation in both contests and keep these players in HSFF. The love of drafting live in Las Vegas and other cities can still be had and with game operators you can trust.

Now is not the time to sell a new game, but I will say that the NFFC and STATS will welcome all of those players who have been stiffed prize money over there by giving a 15% discount for any new live event they play with us. It's not going to replace their past prize money, but if it keeps them in the space we'll do it. We'll be in Las Vegas at the Bellagio that same weekend with our 12-Team Primetime contest and a guaranteed $100,000 grand prize and with both contests within shouting distance of each other I hope folks play both contests and start a new tradition in Sin City. At some point we have to look forward and not back. But I'll admit, if something can be done to save that past prize money I hope it happens because the players don't deserve what has happened to them over there.

I feel terrible for the players. This was not what our industry was set up to do.
Founder, National Fantasy Football Championship & National Fantasy Baseball Championship
Twitter: @GregAmbrosius

KenGill
Posts: 437
Joined: Mon Oct 12, 2009 6:00 pm

What Is Going To Happen To High-Stakes Fantasy Football?

Post by KenGill » Thu Aug 11, 2011 5:39 am

The NFBC is the only contest I have played in for baseball, no reason to look elsewhere.

The NFFC is one of only 2 contests I have played in for football (Rotobowl being the other). No reason to look elsewhere here either.

Shame on the WCOFF!!!! Pay your winners, you fools!
I never lost a game. I only ran out of time. Bobby Layne
Kid....if you're going to make it in this league, you're going to have to learn to drink. Bobby Layne

Mankind
Posts: 148
Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2005 6:00 pm

What Is Going To Happen To High-Stakes Fantasy Football?

Post by Mankind » Thu Aug 11, 2011 5:57 am

I have been with WCOFF since day one, even loyal for the 2 poorly run WCOFB several years back and out of loyalty stayed with them instead of joining NFBC in it's first year. I can't tell you how refreshing it is to get an immediate response back from Greg and Tom whenever I have questions. To ignore your loyal customers is UNACEPTABLE...

I have been with NFFC/NFBC the past 6-7 years and only wish I was onboard the first two years I missed. Keep up the GREAT WORK Greg and Tom..

Duke Viveros "Riverside Sheriff SO CAL SMAC"

DoubleG
Posts: 430
Joined: Tue May 17, 2011 6:00 pm

What Is Going To Happen To High-Stakes Fantasy Football?

Post by DoubleG » Thu Aug 11, 2011 9:32 am

greg - if wcoff folds and doesn't pay there past/current winners, what do u think should be in store for wcoff owners?

FFBL23
Posts: 11
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 6:00 pm

What Is Going To Happen To High-Stakes Fantasy Football?

Post by FFBL23 » Thu Aug 11, 2011 9:42 am

Don't they officially have to file for bankruptcy??

DoubleG
Posts: 430
Joined: Tue May 17, 2011 6:00 pm

What Is Going To Happen To High-Stakes Fantasy Football?

Post by DoubleG » Thu Aug 11, 2011 10:01 am

Originally posted by FFBL23:
Don't they officially have to file for bankruptcy?? kevin - my heart goes out to you. you are one of the best baseball players around, and i hope you get every penny you EARNED.

as for wcoff "having" to do anything, i wouldn't put anything past them.

i'm not sure how much you are owed, but i'm guessing it's a lot. IF it were me, i'd:
1. find an attorney specializing in contracts who will discuss your situation for FREE
2. find out all your legal options

worst case is that you would have wasted an hour of your life. best case is, u'd get back some or all of your money.

good luck and i'm pulling for you

Greg Ambrosius
Posts: 36413
Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2004 6:00 pm

What Is Going To Happen To High-Stakes Fantasy Football?

Post by Greg Ambrosius » Thu Aug 11, 2011 10:04 am

Originally posted by DoubleG:
greg - if wcoff folds and doesn't pay there past/current winners, what do u think should be in store for wcoff owners? Well, there has been a precedent of four other owners not paying their prizes and I don't think we've seen any retribution or legal action against them. This is very, very, very sad and it could easily have been prevented. I feel terrible for everyone who trusted the owners, but I have no idea what can be done legally to get what is owed the players. A lawyer like Jack Haan would know that better than me. Again, I'm sick about this for those players and for our industry. This is a BIG black eye for all of us in this space.

I did see a comment that said the remaining game operators must be rejoicing over this announcement. ARE YOU KIDDING ME?? No way. This is TERRIBLE for those of us remaining, too. Do you know how many emails I've gotten from past players who said they are done in HSFF because of this? Sure, there's less competition but THERE'S ALSO FEWER PLAYERS!!! Sorry, I don't mean to shout, but NOBODY here is happy about what has happened to the players. This sucks for EVERYONE. There is no way this can be good news.

I'm embarrassed for our industry, plain and simple. First AFFL, then Fantasy Jungle, then FFOC's free entries, then Rapid Draft, now WCOFF. This is a shame, a pox on all of us. :mad:
Founder, National Fantasy Football Championship & National Fantasy Baseball Championship
Twitter: @GregAmbrosius

Greg Ambrosius
Posts: 36413
Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2004 6:00 pm

What Is Going To Happen To High-Stakes Fantasy Football?

Post by Greg Ambrosius » Thu Aug 11, 2011 10:07 am

Originally posted by FFBL23:
Don't they officially have to file for bankruptcy?? I don't know what the next step is Kevin. I don't think AFFL went bankrupt and somehow someone seems to have the assets. I don't remember FJ or FFOC filing bankruptcy. They both just went away. Will the original owners file bankruptcy here? It seems possible and I think likely, but I don't know for sure.

Kevin, I agree with Mark. This is terrible for all of the baseball owners who appear to have nothing to play for. I know you're in our NFBC Ultimate Auction League and you have a shot at our $40,000 league prize. You know you're getting that if you win it. But to have a shot at $200,000 and to invest in as many teams as you did and now have the rug pulled out from under you is insane. It's unbelievable. I feel bad for you and I know there's nothing we can do but a good player like you I hope remains in the industry. You're too good of a player to leave over this. I hope you stay and if you're in Las Vegas on either weekends in September the beers are on me. Good luck man.
Founder, National Fantasy Football Championship & National Fantasy Baseball Championship
Twitter: @GregAmbrosius

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