NFL Lockout Thread

[Tom Kessenich]

In 1982, the Brewers were heading to the World Series when star closer Rollie Fingers got hurt. There were constant reports in the playoffs saying "Fingers would be coming back soon." The reports came frequently but Fingers would never return. Ultimately, the season ended and Fingers had still not returned.

While I do expect this thing to get resolved eventually, all this talk about how it could happen "soon" or "next week" or "(pick a date)" reminds me of the Rollie Fingers saga in '82.

Yeah, I'm a cynic. But this situation doesn't deserve my optimism at this point.

[Erok]

Adam Schefter has been caught making up plenty of nonsense over the years. I ignore what he says nowadays.

I do agree though Greg, that this is near the end and I think they are just dotting i's and crossing t's over the next few days.

[Greg Ambrosius]

Originally posted by Tom Kessenich:
In 1982, the Brewers were heading to the World Series when star closer Rollie Fingers got hurt. There were constant reports in the playoffs saying "Fingers would be coming back soon." The reports came frequently but Fingers would never return. Ultimately, the season ended and Fingers had still not returned.

While I do expect this thing to get resolved eventually, all this talk about how it could happen "soon" or "next week" or "(pick a date)" reminds me of the Rollie Fingers saga in '82.

Yeah, I'm a cynic. But this situation doesn't deserve my optimism at this point. Rollie Fingers didn't generate $9.3 billion by himself, so the analogy isn't fair, but I get your point. We would have beaten the Cardinals in the World Series with Fingers by the way, and now we're going on 40+ years of this franchise not winning a title. Yikes.

I'm staying optimistic because it's obvious this is still a battle over the remaining millions left to divvy up. It's not a fight for free agency or any big issue that could crumble this all at once. It's still over the split of revenue, the taking of rookie guaranteed money and giving it to the retired players, things like that. All of that will still take face-to-face tough negotiations and some give-and-take, but it's not where it will make this thing crumble. It's going to get done and for the first time you can see it's going to get done. Too much at stake at this point for it to crumble.

[Old School]

Originally posted by Tom Kessenich:
In 1982, the Brewers were heading to the World Series when star closer Rollie Fingers got hurt. There were constant reports in the playoffs saying "Fingers would be coming back soon." The reports came frequently but Fingers would never return. Ultimately, the season ended and Fingers had still not returned.

While I do expect this thing to get resolved eventually, all this talk about how it could happen "soon" or "next week" or "(pick a date)" reminds me of the Rollie Fingers saga in '82.

Yeah, I'm a cynic. But this situation doesn't deserve my optimism at this point. Did you know Rollie Fingers handlebar mustache is in the Baseball Hall of fame? The one with the
3 time champion Oakland A;s. :rolleyes:

[Greg Ambrosius]

Originally posted by Old School:
quote:Originally posted by Tom Kessenich:
[qb] Did you know Rollie Fingers handlebar mustache is in the Baseball Hall of fame? The one with the
3 time champion Oakland A;s. :rolleyes: [/QUOTE]Wow, that's wild. He had it on the last time I saw him!!

I have to add that Rollie is one very cool guy. I got paired up with him in a best-ball golf outing that Upper Deck sponsored in Milwaukee. Rollie is a solid golfer, but all of us with him sucked that day!! He had to carry all of us, but he was so nice and just a blast to hang with for a day. We had a salesman from Krause Publications who played college basketball at Michigan State, but wasn't much of a golfer. Rollie took to him and basically gave him golf lessons during the competition and enjoyed it every time Dave hit a good shot. He was great.

Rollie lives in Las Vegas and in 2004 we had him speak at the Fantasy Sports Trade Conference at the ESPN Zone. Tug McGraw couldn't make it at the last minute because of his illness and Rollie filled in for him. He was great. I remember him talking with me and Tom about the Brewers for quite a long time. He was only going to stay for a little bit after his speech, but he enjoyed the companionship and stuck around for a long time. Great guy.

And the handlebar moustache was still there!!

[ July 07, 2011, 02:40 PM: Message edited by: Greg Ambrosius ]

[King of Queens]

Can we put the Ambrosius mustache in the NFFC Hall of Fame?

IMO, it's a unanimous first ballot!

[Old School]

Originally posted by King of Queens:
Can we put the Ambrosius mustache in the NFFC Hall of Fame?

IMO, it's a unanimous first ballot! I think Greg and Rollie must be related (mustache gene)....maybe twin sons from different mothers.

He is a great guy....went to a lot of A's games; he and Campy Campaneris nice guys. Most guys were nice then...except Reggie.

Nicest BB guy I ever met: Harmon Killebrew

Biggest tool I ever met: Rick Barry (Warriors)

[Greg Ambrosius]

Originally posted by King of Queens:
Can we put the Ambrosius mustache in the NFFC Hall of Fame?

IMO, it's a unanimous first ballot! I'm still stuck in the '70s man. It's not coming off, Hall of Fame or no Hall of Fame!!!

[Greg Ambrosius]

It sure looks like the lockout will continue into next week, but at least there appears to be more progress. NFL.com reports that there are still issues to resolve, like the rookie wage scale, and those could take a few more days to resolve. All fans patiently wait, hoping for a deal in time to keep the pre-season intact. Here's the latest from NFL.com:

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d8 ... bor-talks-

After holding another full day of labor negotiations, the NFL and its players will continue productive talks, but philosophical differences about some core issues remain, numerous sources with knowledge of the situation said Thursday.

For instance, significant work on how rookies will be compensated still must be done, according to multiple sources, with both parties at odds over how much negotiation will remain in the signing process and how much will be straight slotting, in which players will receive a preordained raise over the person drafted in their spot the previous year. The parties have worked on the issue for weeks but aren't seen as being near a consensus.

"That one is still a real live wire," said one source involved in the process.

"Still a lot of work to be done there," another source said.

The parties haven't really started discussing how they will settle the pending litigation involved with the Brady et al v. National Football League et al antitrust case, which also is a potentially big hurdle, nor have they covered whether the NFL Players Association will reconstitute itself as a union and if federal judicial oversight will be involved in the future collective bargaining agreement.

There are issues involving veteran free agency, too. The owners have requested the right of first refusal to retain their existing free agents coming out of the lockout. But it's a divisive issue, termed by several sources as "a deal-breaker" from the players' perspective.

"That issue could break the whole thing up," one source said. "Players will not budge on it."

Ultimately, several sources opined that the owners would relent on that as the parties come closer to a deal, but for now, it remains a contentious issue that will continue to be addressed.

The owners are requesting that three offensive line designations (tackle, center, guard) be added to the franchise tag, whereas now there is only one offensive line designation across the board. Several sources believe that won't become a major stumbling block that would hold up a deal.

Although major gains have been made in creating a revenue model, there still are differences on whether certain forms of sales tax and charges would be included. This, too, is a relatively minor issue.

The NFLPA conducted a conference call with the Brady lawsuit plaintiffs Thursday night, and it highlighted some of the significant differences that remain between the parties as negotiations continue into Friday.

"It was pretty much what you would expect," said one source with knowledge of the call. "It was an update on where things stand, that we're close on a lot of things, but close only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades."

U.S. Magistrate Judge Arthur Boylan, who's mediating these talks, leaves for vacation Saturday. Negotiations could be extended into the weekend, depending on how things progress Friday in New York, or tabled until next week.

"That's still fluid," one source said. "It might make sense to take 48 hours to regroup and then get together again next week. That's a fluid situation."

[Greg Ambrosius]

And an update of yesterday's 12 1/2 hour meetings from NFL.com:

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d8 ... r-12-hours

NEW YORK -- NFL owners and players re-entered face-to-face negotiations Thursday, knowing they needed to quicken the pace to reach a labor deal and save the preseason.

And, at the very least, the parties turned up the intensity and put in the hours.

Three sources characterized Thursday as a very difficult day of negotiations. At times, it was tenuous, and there were frustrations for those involved.

But the owners and players stayed at it for 12½ hours, meeting until 10:30 p.m. ET in Manhattan, with a few staying behind to complete wrap-up work and lingering until 11:30 p.m. The result, according to those involved, was a healthy amount of progress on the core economic issues that made the talks so difficult during another long session.

In addition, a conference call was held for the 10 named plaintiffs in the Brady et al vs. National Football League et al antitrust case, to prepare them for upcoming logistics and contingencies with the negotiations in a critical stage.

The owners and players will return to the bargaining table Friday at 9 a.m. The possibility of continuing talks through the weekend exists, although that hasn't been decided. U.S. Magistrate Judge Arthur Boylan, who's overseeing the talks, is scheduled to begin vacation Saturday.

The possibility that Boylan might not participate if talks go into the weekend exists, but two sources said that alone doesn't make Friday's meeting more vital, citing preseason revenue as the primary motivation to quickly reach a settlement.

NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell and NFL Players Association executive director DeMaurice Smith each arrived Thursday with five representatives of their constituency, as has been the case at many of these meetings.

Goodell was accompanied by New England Patriots owner Robert Kraft, Dallas Cowboys owner Jerry Jones, New York Giants owner John Mara, Pittsburgh Steelers president Art Rooney II and Kansas City Chiefs owner Clark Hunt. Smith brought NFLPA president Kevin Mawae, former special-teams ace Sean Morey, Steelers quarterback Charlie Batch, Indianapolis Colts center Jeff Saturday and Baltimore Ravens cornerback Domonique Foxworth.

Mawae was asked what he hoped to accomplish.

"Getting a little bit closer to getting a deal done, hopefully. We'll see," Mawae replied. "The closer we get to the kickoff of the regular season, the more important it becomes that the sides come together. But, again, from the players' standpoint, we have to get a deal that's fair for everybody. We're working hard."

Said Smith: "We still have a lot of work to do. We spent all day working hard for a deal that is fair and in keeping with what the players deserve."

Legal teams and staff from each party met Tuesday and Wednesday in Manhattan, and although progress was made, there's only so much that could be done without owners and players present.

This set of talks is particularly critical for a number of reasons.

There's the issue of timing, with July 15 largely seen as a deadline to settle a deal and save the preseason in full. And there are many issues -- including rookie salaries and funding of retiree benefits -- on which the parties have been working to make breakthroughs.

Those issues flow into the larger issue of the revenue split. After last week's progress, larger concepts in that area, such as the all-revenue model, might no longer be stumbling blocks. But related issues still have potential to tear down what's in place.

It has been estimated that it would take from 10 to 14 days to go from an agreement to a signed document, and this week's meetings are designed to cut down that time and lay groundwork so things can quickly move from settlement to the opening of training camps. The Chicago Bears and St. Louis Rams, who are scheduled to play in the Hall of Fame Game on Aug. 7, are set to report to camp July 22.

Saving the preseason would avert a possible loss of hundreds of millions of dollars in revenue. Such a loss would affect the owners' offer to the players and could poison negotiations to the point where the dispute would head back to the courts.

Two court rulings are pending: one from U.S. District Judge David Doty in the network rights fees case and another from the 8th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals on the NFL's appeal of a lockout-lifting injunction.

Lawyers involved in negotiations believe rulings in the cases have been finalized but that neither Doty nor the 8th Circuit judges, who previously implored the league and players to work out their differences themselves, want to issue them. The failure of talks, this line of thinking goes, could lead Boylan to inform those courts that negotiations have broken down and there's no need to wait to reveal their rulings.

If that's indeed Boylan's hammer, he has used it effectively, prompting progress on the revenue split last week. In that time, many of the "fringe" demands -- deemed unacceptable by one side or the other -- fell off the table as well, clearing the way for more productive talks.

One remaining issue is retired players' benefits, which flows into the revenue-split debate. Owners and players didn't settle the funding for such benefits late last week, and a group of retired players -- led by Carl Eller -- filed a lawsuit Monday in a Minneapolis court seeking to halt the ongoing negotiations and prevent the active players from representing them in that setting.