Is it time for 1/2 ppr?

[Greg Ambrosius]

The original high stakes contest had the best rules. Seems like everyone went a different direction to try and have a niche. It wasn't necessary. Now the new kid on the block with those rules continues to gain market share. There is no need for 6 points a td pass. There is no need for 1.5 a TE grab. There is no need for divisions in big leagues. There is no need for 3 RR. There is no need for KDS. These things hinder growth without tremendous marketing plan.

There was a time when I would have disagreed with this. Now, I believe Chad is correct. Each contest needs a "special" set of rules to make themselves different from one another. What we are left with is three high stakes contests where none of them play it straight.

I should not have said it wasn't necessary though. Differentiation probably was needed at that point. Probably isn't now though. Having the best rules is what is the way to go now, whatever those are.

Every rule we've ever passed in the NFBC or NFFC has been to make the game fairer and more enjoyable for the end users. It's never been about being different from WCOFF or FFPC or anyone else. It's been what we thought was best for the customers.

We've tweaked the scoring through the years to make the game better after getting feedback from our customers. That's why we no longer have 1/2 point per reception for RBs.

We added Third Round Reversal and KDS because we felt there was an imbalance of league champions towards the front of the draft, especially in our 14-team contests. We don't regret that at all. As all of you are fighting for your league titles, you aren't thinking about 3RR; you're just competing in a tight, tight league. The numbers point that out and no area of the draft spots is more dominant than others throughout our contests.

The cry has been that 3RR and KDS has held back our growth because it's foreign to new players. That's a fair argument. But does it make the game fairer to the players? We think so, but if we're wrong we will evaluate that. We want to continue growing, but not at the expense of making the game simpler. We're not ready to dumb down the game.

You want vanilla? Sure: take 11 week regular seasons, PPR, more luck in winning league titles, 11 starters if you want. We can have whatever you want. But at the end of the day there's always someone who wants to change the existing format or thinks there's a better format. We like what we have here. Are we wrong? You are the ones who will tell us with your wallets, but with over 7,000 teams this year and the biggest year ever it doesn't look like we're totally wrong.

We're not for everyone, but hopefully we don't need to change just to stay relevant. I kind of like this game we've created, despite the constant, never-ending calls for change.

[renman]

The original high stakes contest had the best rules. Seems like everyone went a different direction to try and have a niche. It wasn't necessary. Now the new kid on the block with those rules continues to gain market share. There is no need for 6 points a td pass. There is no need for 1.5 a TE grab. There is no need for divisions in big leagues. There is no need for 3 RR. There is no need for KDS. These things hinder growth without tremendous marketing plan.

I will say I like the KDS. I enjoy trying to project how the first and seconds will/may go and trying to find the area of the draft board that maximizes my chance to secure the guys I am targeting. I certainly like that more than being randomly given a position and then drafting. Now if it were random like it was on the part would I play? Absolutely, it isn't anywhere close to a deal breaker for me. Just a preference.

[Cocktails and Dreams]

I like KDS also when it is used as it is intended. Not when it has to be set ahead of time. That defeats the purpose of it.

[Cocktails and Dreams]

Every rule we've ever passed in the NFBC or NFFC has been to make the game fairer and more enjoyable for the end users. It's never been about being different from WCOFF or FFPC or anyone else. It's been what we thought was best for the customers.

We've tweaked the scoring through the years to make the game better after getting feedback from our customers. That's why we no longer have 1/2 point per reception for RBs.

We added Third Round Reversal and KDS because we felt there was an imbalance of league champions towards the front of the draft, especially in our 14-team contests. We don't regret that at all. As all of you are fighting for your league titles, you aren't thinking about 3RR; you're just competing in a tight, tight league. The numbers point that out and no area of the draft spots is more dominant than others throughout our contests.

The cry has been that 3RR and KDS has held back our growth because it's foreign to new players. That's a fair argument. But does it make the game fairer to the players? We think so, but if we're wrong we will evaluate that. We want to continue growing, but not at the expense of making the game simpler. We're not ready to dumb down the game.

You want vanilla? Sure: take 11 week regular seasons, PPR, more luck in winning league titles, 11 starters if you want. We can have whatever you want. But at the end of the day there's always someone who wants to change the existing format or thinks there's a better format. We like what we have here. Are we wrong? You are the ones who will tell us with your wallets, but with over 7,000 teams this year and the biggest year ever it doesn't look like we're totally wrong.

We're not for everyone, but hopefully we don't need to change just to stay relevant. I kind of like this game we've created, despite the constant, never-ending calls for change. [/quote]

6 a TD pass makes it more skillful? I will never follow that logic. Just like 1.5 TE grab does not make the FFPC more skillful. They know that though. They want it that way. And you are correct, we do get to vote with our wallets. Personally, I prioritized the place with 4 points a TD pass and no 1.5 TE when I had to choose, so they got the vast majority of my main event business. NFFC easily next and the 1.5 TE grab last as it is easily the worst scoring IMO and has a shorter season. Different players should not get different scores for doing the same thing. 6 a qb pass gets a little random and fluky but at least everyone throwing it gets the same amount of points. Like things about all the games. That is just my preference in scoring. Obviously, none are that big of a deal to me or I wouldn't play.

[kjduke]

I don't see the difference in scoring rules between the national contests as a major deterrent or benefit for any one versus the other. The only issue I have with any of them is having DST PA scoring so low it becomes meaningless, as was the case with WCOFF and now with FFWC. Everything else - the PPR differences, the QB scoring, all just minor tweaks that are easily adjusted for.

The big edge between the contests for me is in playoff structure, length of season, payouts (top-heavy vs flatter) and KDS/3RR for all of which the NFFC has an edge. The exception would be some of the standalone contests that use Victory Pts which I really like, but that probably would be a deterrent for some in a national contest.

[Cocktails and Dreams]

I love the FFWC defensive scoring. It is awesome taking fluky random crap out of it. Agree on VP being nice. But it would be a detriment to growth, just like KDS and 3RR probably are.

[kjduke]

I love the FFWC defensive scoring. It is awesome taking fluky random crap out of it.

I don't understand how giving more points for a DST that throttles the opposition from scoring is random and fluky.

As is, the FFWC gives 1 point more for a DST that holds an opponent to one TD than it does for one that gives up 50 points. That makes no sense to me.

Likewise, every year we hear from people that don't like 3RR/KDS that is holds back the contest. I don't buy that, there are plenty of people that like 3RR/KDS and play more leagues here because of it, as there are some like yourself that don't like it. Saying that it holds back growth just sounds like a self-serving opinion.

[Cocktails and Dreams]

I love the FFWC defensive scoring. It is awesome taking fluky random crap out of it.

I don't understand how giving more points for a DST that throttles the opposition from scoring is random and fluky.

As is, the FFWC gives 1 point more for a DST that holds an opponent to one TD than it does for one that gives up 50 points. That makes no sense to me.

Likewise, every year we hear from people that don't like 3RR/KDS that is holds back the contest. I don't buy that, there are plenty of people that like 3RR/KDS and play more leagues here because of it, as there are some like yourself that don't like it. Saying that it holds back growth just sounds like a self-serving opinion.

Do you read the posts? I like KDS when used properly. They have made strides to make it pretty reasonable. Especially in the big leagues. 3RR I could take or leave. Thinking it is not necessary and not liking it are two different things. Thinking it could be hindering growth and not liking it are two different things. I am just fine with the NFFC rules, and when I consider the trust factor, then the rules are more than adequate, even though I do find the 6 per pass a little too random and quirky, but I can benefit or not just like everyone else.

[renman]

I agree with whoever made the point about TE scoring 1.5 being a negative. I haven't even considered that event mainly because of that scoring quirk. The only reason I brought up this topic and started the thread (other than that I enjoy banter about fantasy football in general) is due to how the passing game has exploded in the last 5 years or so to the point that we will likely see less and less non receivers ever taken in the first round. I posed this question earlier. Should a workhorse RB who sees 65% of the snaps and gets 18 touches be easily outscored by a 3rd down back who sees 20% of the snaps and gets 6 touches? I do not personally have ultra strong feelings about it and will play the game either way. I simply wondered how others felt.

[TR]

I agree with whoever made the point about TE scoring 1.5 being a negative. I haven't even considered that event mainly because of that scoring quirk. The only reason I brought up this topic and started the thread (other than that I enjoy banter about fantasy football in general) is due to how the passing game has exploded in the last 5 years or so to the point that we will likely see less and less non receivers ever taken in the first round. I posed this question earlier. Should a workhorse RB who sees 65% of the snaps and gets 18 touches be easily outscored by a 3rd down back who sees 20% of the snaps and gets 6 touches? I do not personally have ultra strong feelings about it and will play the game either way. I simply wondered how others felt.

I definitely feel it shouldn't be so easy for the workhorse RB to be outscored by 3rd down back...the original rule of 1/2 pt per RB was good..fanduel got that part right.